Congress Defends Gaza Assault 404-1

Eric Garris, March 05, 2008

Today Congress passed a resolution (HR 951) condemning Palestinian rocket attacks that include a strident defense of recent Israeli tactics in the Gaza Strip. The resolution also condemned Iran and Syria for “sponsoring terror attacks,” and demanded that Saudi Arabia publicly condemn Palestinian actions.

The resolution was originally introduced in January, but contains new language including a passage saying that that “those responsible for launching rocket attacks against Israel routinely embed their production facilities and launch sites amongst the Palestinian civilian population, utilizing them as human shields” and “the inadvertent inflicting of civilian casualties as a result of defensive military operations aimed at military targets, while deeply regrettable, is not at all morally equivalent to the deliberate targeting of civilian populations as practiced by Hamas and other Gaza-based terrorist groups.”

Although 23 Congressman abstained or voted “present,” only one bravely voted no: Rep. Ron Paul.




101 Responses to “Congress Defends Gaza Assault 404-1”

  1. God Bless Ron Paul!

  2. What a bunch of cowards, quislings, and traitors we have representing us.

    Does anyone else feel like the lobby has made absolute fools out of us all?

  3. I’m disappointed to see that even Paul Broun of GA voted for the resolution.

    The added text says Hamas is deliberately targeting civilians. Yet the linked JTA article says: “More than 100 Palestinians and three Israelis have been killed since last Wednesday.” I can understand the high Palestinian casualties IF it’s true that they fire from civilian areas, BUT I’m always at a loss as to how Israeli casualties are so incredibly low considering Hamas is supposedly targeting civilian areas.

  4. Even Keith Ellison voted for this piece of garbage.

  5. Israel is an illegal state that was artificially created by the UN, the colonial powers and Biblical propaganda. The indigenous Palestinian population refuse to accept it and the war will go on until Israel is wiped clean off the map.

    It is only then that they will come to realize that the mighty hand of imperialism is no match for the creeping sands of the desert.

  6. Glad to know Ron Paul will be in the Congress for many years to come!

  7. We need to redesign the American flag with 50 stars of David.

  8. I have several Jewish friends who I have discussed this with and one very close Jewish friend who is my best friend. We both agree that there is a big difference between being anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish. He, like me, does not condone the murderous regime in control of Israel at this time. He, like me, realizes that only MEANINGFUL dialogue and a chance for Palestinian autonomy will stop the bloodshed. Israel cannot continue to dictate apartheid policies while condemning like policies around the world. This hypocritical stance only portrays Israel as dishonest and shameful. It has become crystal clear that the zionist regime in Israel desires complete hegemony over the entire Middle East and is happy to have the United States as its bitch to wage war against its enemies. The sooner cooler heads in Israel prevail, and as soon as the flatulent senators and congressmen in the U.S. are replaced with real MEN of character and backbone, the better for us all.

  9. Shema Yisrael!

    Shema elhod!

  10. When has Israel criticized apartheid? When South Africa had apartheid, Israel was its most steadfast supporter.

  11. Ron Paul a True Patriot and American Congressman and working for America, Rest seems like working for Israel.

  12. Answer to Madrid, me too.

  13. 404-1? Such a vote can be expected in the Duma of the USSR, but in our Congress? What the…oh yeah, it involves Israel. Never mind…

  14. [...] Dr. No strikes again Posted on March 5, 2008 by Lance This time, as the only member of Congress to decline approval of the Israeli attacks in Gaza. The Resolution passed 404-1. Today Congress passed a resolution (HR 951) condemning Palestinian rocket attacks that include a strident defense of recent Israeli tactics in the Gaza Strip. The resolution also condemned Iran and Syria for “sponsoring terror attacks,” and demanded that Saudi Arabia publicly condemn Palestinian actions. [...]

  15. Israel is probably blackmailing all those in congress

  16. Aid and rights groups are calling the situation in Gaza a humanitarian crisis (created by Israel) and the House of Ill Repute votes 404-1 to condemn the Palestinians.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080306/wl_nm/palestinians_israel_humanitarian_dc

    Israel murders children playing soccer and kills many more Palestinians in a day than Qassam rockets have killed Israelis in history and the Parliament of Prostitutes votes 404-1 to condemn the Palestinians.

    Anyone who votes for any of those 404 is a traitor.

  17. Flatulent Senators & Congress? I never knew they had a gas problem. What I don’t understand is why congress passes or discusses at least so many resolutions that have no bearing on Americans or anything that really matters. The most successful bills it seems are ones that recognize or condemn something. I didn’t vote for my representatives to just issues statements…I’d like them to actually do something while they are in office. Of course I don’t want them taking any action on this terrible resolution.

  18. Serious, what is congress doing? Supporting this war is no way to make peace. We need to be an honest broker, not taking sides with this kind of resolution.

  19. The Zionist movement to reclaim the land based on early Biblical promises really caught fire with the Balfour Declaration that was favorably received by the Crown. The re-population of the land began and continued for years. Israel was then recognized by the League of Nations and subsequently by the United Nations.

    The U.S. has sent foreign aid of over $100-billion to Israel since 1948. At the same time we have bought oil from and sent aid to the surrounding nations who are hell bent on destroying every one in Israel. What kind of stupid foreign policy is that?

    There are irreconcilable problems on both sides. The Koran is the germ that drives the Muslims to want to rid Israel from what they consider to be their land, and of course they did occupy it for a long time. Then there is the interpretation of scripture on the part of the Zionists that make a divine claim for the same land.

    In my view they are both wrong. Islam is simple idolatry and their book has no marks of authenticity. And, for the Zionists, the promises to the land were completely fulfilled over three thousand years ago. (Josh 23:14) Nothing failed thereof that God had promised.

    I am not a racist as in my view there is only one race, the human race. And, in my humble opinion there will never be peace in the area unless it is through the Prince of Peace.

    But, given the hardness of heart on both sides, there is little chance of that. I am a proud supporter of Dr. Paul!

  20. I’m afraid that the bunch of monkeys that represent us in the Congress would not know how to determine “moral equivalence”. The end result of killing people (bad guys and good guys) is the final statistic that God will judge. The Lebanon incursion in 2006 and the current disproportionate killing of persons in Gaza can never be justified. But what can you expect from a group that has the blood of 100,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqis on their hands. So much for Christian ethics.

  21. Can someone please explain something to me. We keep hearing about the notion of “land for peace.” Well, Israel totally pulled out of Gaza. They forcibly and involuntarily removed about 7,000 Jews (some of whom had lived there for more than 30 years). They did what the Palestinians demanded. They “ethnically cleansed” Gaza of all Jews, made sure it was “Judenrien.”

    So now what? I know your going to tell me Gaza is still under “siege” and Israel controls the border. Well, what would you like Israel to do, NOT have a border? So the story goes that Gaza is under “siege.” In fact, Israel, a nation with less than one half of one percent of the land area of the 20+ Arab Muslim nations that surround her, is laying siege to the whole Middle East, isn’t she? A tiny land of 6 million Jews, totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs is the evil, wicked aggressor.

    And so Israel gave up land, but where is the peace? They continue to fire thousands of rockets at the town of Sderot. And its the same deal in Lebannon, they fully pull out (as certified by the United Nations) and Hezbollah keeps attacking. I don’t think some of these people want peace. I think its all a game of smoke and mirrors. I watched TV on 9/11/01, these are the same people that were dancing in the streets, singing “Allah Ahkbar,” and celebrating in joyful revelry as thousands of Americans were being burned alive.

  22. The Talmud in Tractate Kesubos teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Moshiach (Messiah from the House of David). Furthermore it states that we are forbidden to rebel against the nations and that we should remain loyal citizens and we shall not attempt to leave the exile which G-d sent us into, ahead of time.

    The government in Israel is no more representative of the Jewish faith than the government in the US is representative of the Christian faith.

  23. I remember CNN mentioning also that the three Isrealis killed with soldiers in Gaza. Taken together, it all reminds me of 2000.

  24. *correction: “with” should be “were”.

  25. Yet some Americans still ask that stupid question, “Why do they hate us?”

  26. There is much you do not know. The only reasons Israel removed Jews from Gaza were to relocate them in the occupied West Bank and to turn Gaza into a concentration camp it could attack with impunity. Israel has been trying to slowly starve the residents of Gaza. It has killed hundreds of Palestinians there in the last three years before any rockets flew. Read the link I posted above about how Israel has turned Gaza into the worst humanitarian crisis in the region in 40 years. As for people dancing in the streets o 9/11/01, don’t forget about the Israeli agents who were doing that from the Meadowlands as they watched the towers burn. Read about it below:

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
    http://guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/israelis-arrested-9-11.htm

  27. You sure you weren’t watching the dancing Israelis In New Jersey? And those horrible rockets have killed how many women & children as compared to Israeli attacks? Remain in Zion, brother.

  28. But what about the Holocaust?

  29. The body count was 33.3 Palestinians for every Israeli killed. Most of the Palestinian victims were civilians,and many children died. The dimwitted 404-1 Congressional vote in support of this massacre (save Ron Paul) is precisely why we have problems in the Arab and Muslim world.

  30. Well, Israel totally pulled out of Gaza. They forcibly and involuntarily removed about 7,000 Jews (some of whom had lived there for more than 30 years). They did what the Palestinians demanded. They “ethnically cleansed” Gaza of all Jews, made sure it was “Judenrien.”

    This was a purely symbolic gesture that masked the shallowness of Israel’s supposed “commitment to peace” initiated when the Gaza settlements were no longer geopolitically remunerative. Israel still retains control of air space, territorial waters, offshore maritime access, the population registry, entry of foreigners, imports and exports as well as the tax system, so its claim of “withdrawal” is spurious, as it relegated Gaza to its subsidiary, the Palestinian Authority.

    So now what? I know your going to tell me Gaza is still under “siege” and Israel controls the border. Well, what would you like Israel to do, NOT have a border? So the story goes that Gaza is under “siege.” In fact, Israel, a nation with less than one half of one percent of the land area of the 20+ Arab Muslim nations that surround her, is laying siege to the whole Middle East, isn’t she? A tiny land of 6 million Jews, totally surrounded by over 200 million Arabs is the evil, wicked aggressor.

    Stop trying to confuse the issue. Israel’s laying siege to Gaza and has been since mid-2007, a tiny strip of territory containing 1.5 million people hemmed in on all sides and driven to acts of desperation by externally imposed privation. Furthermore, you seem tied to a non-sequitur: the magnitude of Israel’s assault does not determine its morality, as you implication would have it, and your counterposition of relative populations merely serves as a rhetorical false limb with which to distract.

    And so Israel gave up land, but where is the peace? They continue to fire thousands of rockets at the town of Sderot. And its the same deal in Lebannon, they fully pull out (as certified by the United Nations) and Hezbollah keeps attacking. I don’t think some of these people want peace. I think its all a game of smoke and mirrors. I watched TV on 9/11/01, these are the same people that were dancing in the streets, singing “Allah Ahkbar,” and celebrating in joyful revelry as thousands of Americans were being burned alive.

    It so happens that Israel began an economic boycott of Gaza back in 2006 in response to Hamas’ electoral victory, and not any act of aggression. A brief comparison would be apposite: a staggering total of thirteen Israelis have died from rocket attacks since 2000, whereas 1,259 out of 2,679 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces during the same period were civilians. Human Rights Watch determined in a 2007 report that Israel had not monitored the assault on civilian areas or launched an independent investigation thereof. For a state so heavy on humanitarian rhetoric, the distribution of deaths at Israeli hands is slightly odd, to say the least.

  31. The answer is while Hamas is using relatively primative rockets with minimal accuracy and targeting capability, thus using area targets. Israel strikes back with 4th generational (F-22 would be 5th generational) precision matched only by the United States. So why so many deaths? Well, they don’t care about collateral damage. They probably do not have any sort of go/no-go criteria for the number of exceptable civilian deaths. Yes Hamas calculates the probable counter-attack and likely casualties as part of winning in the media; there is pain in watching this unfold but both sides are getting what they want. Both enjoy the struggle and emotional roller-coaster.

  32. The gang in Israel is worse than Hitler prior to WW2.Hitler had his worse prewar pogram on Kristalknacht 1938,about a hundred Jews died.The Israeli murderers and thieves have been averaging at least 100 a month for the last 8 years.Tim R. quit justfing the crimes of the Zionazi terrorists.

  33. Please Tim R, do not justify what is going on in Gaza.If you won’t let the Palistinans go, give them full civil rights and reparations for the stolen land and all the murders with the right to return.

  34. Oh yes, Israel pulled out of Gaza. And as you implicitly noted, Tim R., Gaza is still under siege. Imagine that you live in a city from which you cannot leave. Your water, food, medicine, electricity, in fact all necessary supplies, are stingily doled out to you or withheld completely. At any time, for any reason.

    The land your father held is now squatted upon by Israeli settlers and your orchards and olive trees bulldozed. Whenever Hamas extends a ceasefire offer Israel shrugs and talks of preconditions while laughing up its sleeve about its promises to keep to the Road Map.

    Apparently you think all Gazans should suffer for a few celebrating 9/11. Thus, as another poster notes, you must think all Israelis should suffer because a few here celebrated even as the towers burned, that all American blacks should suffer because some were happy to hear that Ronald Reagan was shot, in fact, that group identity means we (America and Israel) get to slaughter and bully innocent and guilty alike, even if the guilty are few.

    Have you the slightest idea of how utterly immoral you sound? If you tremble in fear like this before several thousand men with ancient rifles and home-made bombs, you probably would have crapped your pants daily during WWII. America, home of the brave?

  35. I stand with Ron Paul. Who are these cowardly Americans that stand with foreign governments and send our troops to die in foreign deserts? We have cowards for leaders paid off and bribe by foreign countries. When is the revolution? Let’s get in on!

  36. I remember that footage of people "dancing in the streets" on 9/11. It was the same ten seconds and the same tight shot of about seven people, shown over and over again.

  37. Lobby controls and RUNS the new Evil Empire, every revolution or EXPERIMENT ends this way.

    Only tiny minority can not and will not be BOUGHT, Dr. Paul is one of them.

  38. And we’re meant to expect “change” with a Congress like this?

  39. I FIND YOUR USE OF THE WORD "ENJOY" TO DESCRIBE WHAT IS HAPPENING TO PALESTINIANS!! BUT I WOULD GRREATLY ENJOY SEEING YOU IN THE LINE OF RACIST/ZIONIST FIRE!

  40. Israel has created a ghetto for the Palestinians in Gaza. Gaza is cut off from Israel and from the surrounding arab countries by land and by sea, they rely on Israel for their barest needs in food, water, electricity, and employment. If Israel decides to cut off fuel, then the Palestinians do without. If they cut off electricity, then they sit in the dark. If Israel shuts the border, then the Palestinians don’t go to work.
    Gaza is a prison. And you wonder why the Palestinians are restless?

  41. At least the good part is the jewish news isn’t slandering Ron for his vote.

    “The sole vote against was U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) who preaches the reduction of U.S. involvement in overseas conflicts.”

  42. How is it that so many people who never had a ‘real’ job, after
    just a few terms in congress, become millionaires?
    Is congressional pay that good? Just does not add up, does it?
    Something smells fishy there. Where are they getting all that
    money from, or, who? Keep electing the same crooks and liars
    and you expect change? We need 427 Ron Pauls in Congress. He
    alone stands for ‘America’. The rest are traitors.
    Re-Elect No One! Except Ron Paul!

  43. DX10,

    “The Zionist movement to reclaim the land based on early Biblical promises really caught fire with the Balfour Declaration that was favorably received by the Crown.”

    This may be true in part, but probably more important to the Zionist movement was the change in US immigration laws in the 1920s. I won’t go into detail here, but I will refer you to Gabriel Kolko’s June 2, 2007 article “Israel: Mythologizing a 20th Century Accident.”

    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/kolko.php?articleid=11058

  44. DX10,

    If you missed this article by Gabriel Kolko, you should find it enlightening:

    Israel: Mythologizing a 20th Century Accident
    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/kolko.php?articleid=11058

  45. Christian Meier, Res Publica Amissa. Eine Studie zu Verfassung und Geschichte der späten römischen Republik (Frankfurt 1997).

  46. A criteria to apply for and becoming member-state of the European Union is to have abolished the death penalty. And yet you don’t hear one peep from the EU concerning the almost daily undiscriminate killing of Palestinians that have not been charged, tried or convicted of anything. They get killed for being Palestinians. Or militant Palestinians. Or possibly members of a terrorist organization. As if that should matter. They end up dead anyway. Shame on the EU. And shame on the US Congress. Actually, shame on us all.

  47. Ron, Israel did not “give up” any land. The ILLEGAL settlers were taking land within the boundaries of the Palestinian territory.

    The “rockets” being launched at Sderot are vintage, unlike the bombs dropped from IAF helicopters on unsuspecting civilians, IDF snippers indescriminately killing women, children, the elderly, IDF bulldozers knocking down homes WITHOUT notice and WITH people inside (just ask Rachael Correy).

    Israel has made Gaza a huge prison and is not allowing medical treatment, food, or other basic human necessities into the territory. It is obvious Israel doesn’t want peace. With all their grand “intelligence”, they haven’t located and taken out those rocket launchers? Give me a break.

    Were they really dancing on 9/11? You mean, like the Israeli’s in New Jersey that were celebrating and filming the “event”? Hmmmm, I smell “false flag” here. Yes, I remember the Lavon Affair and I also think the bombing of the U.S.S. Liberty was deliberate.

    If you think the Zionists are so just, go live there.

  48. I think it’s my childhood fascinations with Greek mythology and science fiction that causes me to cringe at vote tallies like this one. From my vantage, 404-1 makes Dr Paul look more like a Cassandra than a patriot.

    “A fake fortuneteller can be tolerated. But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight. Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved.”
    ~Robert Heinlein

  49. One detail you neglect: The mostly European Zionists who came to Palestine at the beginning of the twentieth century ‘re-populated’ Palestine while ethnically cleansing it of over a million indigenous Palestinian Arabs in the late 1940s. They then continued their policy of annihilation of the local Arab population through segregation laws and racist policies, as well as by force. When they conquered the now Occupied Territories, this scenario was replayed, all be it at a somewhat smaller scale with further ethnic cleansing and continued colonization of the newly acquired territory, along with brutal tactics such as house demolishions, assassinations, and other imaginative acts of violence.
    This is not an even playing field between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

  50. one has only to study the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising to understand what is happening in Gaza.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

    In 1940, the Nazis began concentrating Poland’s population of over 3 million Jews into a number of extremely crowded ghettos located in various Polish cities. The largest of these, the Warsaw Ghetto, concentrated approximately 400,000 people into a densely packed central area of Warsaw. Thousands of Jews died due to rampant disease and starvation, even before the Nazis began their massive deportations from the ghetto to the Treblinka extermination camp

  51. The Quiet Occupation :

    http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=7762

  52. DX10,

    I do not know of anyone who accuesed of being a racist.But your comments:”The Koran is the germ that drives the Muslims to want to rid Israel from what they consider to be their land,…”,”In my view they are both wrong. Islam is simple idolatry and their book has no marks of authenticity.”speak valumes of who you really are.

  53. I think they are both wrong. You think, perhaps that they are both right? Whatever.

  54. Thanks.

  55. And, thanks.

  56. I was aware of this history. Thanks.

  57. The situation this vote underscores is sickening but Members of Congress are trapped in it as much as the rest of us. Why would they be expected to commit political suicide for the sake of a meaningless resolution? The mystery is how Ron Paul gets away with ti.

  58. An invention called ‘the Jewish people’

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html

  59. R. Nelson writes: “Oh yes, Israel pulled out of Gaza. And as you implicitly noted, Tim R., Gaza is still under siege. Imagine that you live in a city from which you cannot leave. Your water, food, medicine, electricity, in fact all necessary supplies, are stingily doled out to you or withheld completely. At any time, for any reason.”

    We are very much in agreement on the humanitarian side. Food, water, medicine etc., should NEVER be withheld. In fact, Israel should do even more than that. They should do everything in their power to make sure that the civilians in Gaza have an abundance of these things and are well cared for. We are not in disagreement on that.

    However, the fact of the matter is that Israel did pull out and they were promised peace. They never got peace. What did they get? The Palestinians had free and fair elections and they elected HAMAS, a group that is dedicated to the complete destruction of Israel. Israel is far from perfect, but two wrongs don’t make a right. So please stop using the plight of Palestinians as a justification or rationalization for rocket attacks and support of terrorism.

  60. Wasn’t Gaza controlled by Egypt prior to 1967?

    I’m curious, can anyone on here find old newspaper articles or any evidence that the Palestinians were fighting for their land at that time? Ostensibly, there should have been a great outcry against Eygpt at that time, correct? Egypt was surely blamed for the suffering of the Palestinains and the Palestinians were demanding their independence, correct? They probably launched terrorist attacks against their Egyption oppressors, correct?

    Same deal with Jordan, prior to the 1967 war all of West Bank and East Jeruslem was controlled by the Kingdom of Jordan. There must have been a great outcry at the time, correct? The Palestinians must have demanded a state of their own and they probably had radical groups carrying out terrorist attacks against the Jordanian soldiers that were oppressing them and stealing their land, correct?

  61. And what is your point of all of that?What are you trying to prove?

  62. Speaking of Terrorism and Gaza here is some late breaking news off CNN and MSNBC. So

    JERUSALEM (CNN)
    …Video from the scene showed a frantic crowd of rescue workers carrying bloodied victims into ambulances. Dozens of police officers were scouring the campus and surrounding streets.

    Police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld said: “They opened fire on innocent youngsters studying. A number of students have been killed.”

    And MEANWHILE…..what was happening when the good, peaceful citizens of Gaza heard about this?

    “CNN’s Ben Wedeman in Gaza reported celebratory shooting shortly after the attack”

    And how abut those peaceful, kind, and gentle HAMAS activists?

    MSNBC reports: “Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said the group “blesses the heroic operation in Jerusalem, which was a natural reaction to the Zionist massacre.”

    So they bless people and call them heroic when they kill innocent people? What if Israe intentionally killed 7 innocent students today and then an Israeli spokesperson called it “heroic” and “blessed” the people that carried it out? The outrage and condemnation would be heard around the world! But for HAMAS and people in Gaza to celebrate, that’s ok right? I mean, come on people, and I the only one that sees the hypocracy in this?

  63. Less than monkeys, much more bestial, are the inhabitants of the US Congress.

  64. When I saw that “-1″, I was like, “Please let that be Ron Paul,” and of course it was. I’m going to write him in this November, he’s still the only one I can vote for. At least he’s in congress, and hopefully has a much higher profile now. He knows he has backing now, that there are people out there who do care that he’s fighting for us.

  65. I want to know what was Dennis Kucinich’s stand on this resolution; why he did not vote nay. The Democrat Party is definitely controled by the Zionists.

  66. Cassandra was a Trojan patriot, one of a very few. Why would truthtelling exclude both courage and honesty?

    As far as I can tell, not having read Heinlein’s work which contains the above quote, it could have well been uttered by a vile tyrant upset by someone who injures his reign with truth.

  67. The Palestinians answer murder with murder. Is this praiseworthy? Of course not. Is it predictable? Absolutely, given human nature. Who would know more about glorifying slaughter than we Americans, who think nothing of directly and indirectly killing hundreds of thousands of people of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, while singing the praises of our leaders who are responsible?

    So, Tim R., after your wife dies in childbirth at an Israeli checkpoint, your father’s land is taken, your children are hungry, your cousin is killed while playing soccer, and you are given less freedom than a laboratory rat, what might be your natural reaction even to so heinous a crime as the yeshiva shooting? I mourn for the slain of both sides, while recognizing that one side is more sinned against than sinning.

  68. DX10,

    Please excuse the second posting. The first one evidently had to go through the bowels of the Internet before it appeared on this page. It is the first time I have experienced any delay in the posting of a comment on this site. The second comment did post immediately while the first one was still missing in action.

  69. “I want to know what was Dennis Kucinich’s stand on this resolution..”

    Not voting.

  70. How these congressmen can sleep @ night is beyond me.

  71. If you send a missile with a half-ton warhead into an apartment building you know is inhabited, you know with certainty you'll be killing a number of innocents along with, you hope, the target. That's murder, even if you haven't previously assigned a face or a name to the victims. Cops don't get to mow down a crowd of people to get a fleeing criminal, but Israel apparently gets a free pass.

    If you start a war against a country you know, or should know, is guiltless of the crime you charge it with, you know with a certainty that innocent people will die wholesale–and for a lie. That might not be murder one in the law books, but it's murder. It's killing aforethought, and without justification.

    If you starve, persecute, rob, kill and otherwise torment a people and some of them decide to fight back, you are probably justified in defending youself. You just can't do it with clean hands.

  72. I never thought I’d see any group in the US publically endorse genocide and collective punishment ( starving, bombing, stealing of medicines, electricity, seizure of property ) of civilians, but I guess its par for the course given how they have vociferously endorsed Israeli terrorism for decades.

    Chechen separatists bombing apartment buildings in Russia? Terrorism! Indonesians militants bombing apartments in Jakarta? Terrorism! Israel bombing Palestinian apartment buildings? Lawful and moral use of force against dangerous extremists!

    Palestinian militants firing rockets at Israel? Terrorism! Israel firing rockets at Palestinians? Legitimate use of force on human shields, regrettable but necessary.

    Seizure of Israeli militant Gilad Shalit? Terrorism, abduction!! Seizure of Palestinian militants by Israel? Lawful arrests of known terrorists.

    Richard Reid the ‘shoe bomber’? Terrorist!! Threats to target Iraqi oil refineries and pipelines? Terrorism!! Israel bombing the international airport of Lebanon, oil refineries, and other crucial civilian infrastructure unaffiliated with Hezbollah inside Lebanon? Lawful use of force.

    Bombing of USS Cole? Terrorism!! Bombing of USS Liberty? There was no bombing, these are not the droids you’re looking for, move along.

    They use car bombs, they massacre women and children Milosevic-style, and and to top it off, have hundreds of illegal nuclear bombs produced in a plant with no international inspections in violation of every non-proliferation treaty.. fine as long as its Israel, am I right?

    The fact that the so-called “War On Terror” is promoted and instigated by those who engage in terrorism so routinely is horrifying.

  73. Tim R – "What if Israel intentionally killed 7 innocent students today and then an Israeli spokesperson called it “heroic” and “blessed” the people that carried it out?"

    Well, that pretty much happened last week with 120 or so dead Palestinians, so what's your point?

  74. What immediately struck me was the “new language” added to Resolution HR951 which not only blames the Palestinians for the Israeli slaughter of over 120 Palestinians, but also absolves the Israelis of any moral responsibility for their murderous intent and action.

    As for Ron Paul’s vote against this shameful resolution, one can only marvel at the man’s courage, integrity, and human decency, especially when surrounded by a pack of hyenas masquerading as Congressmen.

    Nu? How about a resolution condemning the Israeli government for engaging in its routine policy of targeted assassinations, which precipitated the rocket attacks in the first place? or for confiscating more Palestinian land to build more illegal settlements while simultaneeously declaring that it wants to make peace with the Palestinians? or for strangling the Gaza Strip for the past forty years? etc., etc., etc.

  75. Question: Do people on here see a difference between accidental and intentional killing? I happen to have a law degree and the way I understand criminal law is that intentional, that is to say purposeful homicide that was the product of malice aforethought, is much more serious than criminally negligent homicide for example. Negligent homicide means you killed someone accidently, because you were not as careful as you should have been. Intentional homicide is punishable by life without parole or the death penalty in some states. On the other hand, criminally negligent homicide is considered much less serious and is punishable by a maximum of four years in prison (in New York anyway).

    So do you think Israel intentionally and purposefully kills innocent Palestinians? With malice aforethought? Why is Israel lambasted as committing murder if they accidently kill civilians while trying to hunt down terrorists? Also, don’t the Islamic terrorists they are fighting, INTENTIONALLY and with malice aforethought, set out specifically to kill innocent people? By the way, I would ask the same question when you call the United States a terrorist.

    I would really like to hear people’s thoughts on this.

  76. You may ask yourself: if a policeman draws his gun in a public area and fires at a criminal, and accidentally kills several bystanders in the process, should he be absolved of guilt?

    Tim, you don’t need to hear anyone else’s thoughts on this, search your conscience and you know the answer. You are only trying to convince yourself.

  77. I think R. Nelson makes some very good points. Perhaps the United States as well as Israel should do a lot more to minimize the killing of innocent civilians. No, a government should not bomb an apartment building if they know innocent people are going to get killed. The ends don’t justify the means. We should never take the death of even one innocent person lightly, however, I suppose that is what happens in war.

    However, I still think it is unintentional. Yes, it might be negligent or even a reckless disregard for life, but Israel and the US are not going out and deliberatly trying to kill innocent people.

    On the other hand the Palestinian terrorists, specifically and with malice aforethought, try to find innocent civilians and target them. Killing innocent people is their GOAL. When Israel strikes they kill innocent people (which is wrong in itself) but they are trying to kill terrorists which is a form of self-defense.

    Also, what really makes me sick is the way some Muslims in Gaza, Lebannon and other places were actually celebrating the deaths of innocent people yesterday (just like they did on 9/11) When a major HAMAS terrorsist is killed I never see Jews or Americans singing and dancing in the streets. In fact, I once asked a Rabbi what is a proper reaction when a Jew hears that a dangerous HAMAS terrorist has been killed. He said the proper reaction is to say, “How sad! How unfortunate that we had no choice but to do that.”

    That is far cry from dancing in the streets!

  78. There is nothing accidental about Israel killing of Palestinians.

  79. An even greater example ofJewish fundamentalism’s influence upon the secular part of the Israeli establishment can be detected in the official arrangement of Goldstein’s elaborate funeral at a time that the deliberate character of the massacre could not be denied. The establishment was affected by the fact, widely reported in the Hebrew press but given little place in the foreign press, that within two days of the massacre the walls of religious neighborhoods of west Jerusalem (and to a lesser extent of many other religious neighborhoods) were covered by posters extolling Goldstein’s virtues and complaining that he did not manage to kill more Arabs. Children of religious settlers who came to Jerusalem to demonstrate sported buttons for months after the massacre that were inscribed: “Dr. Goldstein cured Israel’s ills.” Numerous concerts of Jewish religious music and other events often developed into demonstrations of tribute to Goldstein. The Hebrew press reported these incidents of public tribute in copious detail. No major politician protested against such celebrations

    Before the start of the procession well-known rabbis eulogized Goldstein and commended the murder. Rabbi Israel Ariel, for example, said: “The holy martyr, Baruch Goldstein, is from now on our intercessor in heaven. Goldstein did not act as an individual; he heard the cry of the land of Israel, which is being stolen from us day after day by the Muslims. He acted to relieve that cry of the land!” Toward the end of his eulogy Rabbi Ariel added: “The Jews will inherit the land not by any peace agreement but only by shedding blood.” Ben-Shoshan Yeshu’a, a Jewish underground member, sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and amnestied after a few years spent under luxurious hotel conditions, lauded Goldstein and praised his action as an example for other Jews to follow.

    http://theunjustmedia.com/the%20real_significance_of_baruch_goldstein.htm#bottom

    ‘Goldstein festivity takes on added meaning’

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3063045,00.html

  80. We all know many Israelis want to ethnically clean out Israel,the West Bank,and Gaza of all Palistinians.The only answer,in my opinion is a one state solution, with full civil and religious rights for all, and full reparations for the Palistinians.

  81. Excerpted from The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians by Michael Hoffman II, Moshe Lieberman. Copyright © 2002. Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.
    American official history and official media tend to report Israeli attacks on Palestinians usually only once, and then often sparingly, sometimes omitting key elements. But there is never any annual remembrance of Arab victims of particularly savage and indiscriminate Israeli attacks, such as the 20,000 civilians slaughtered by the Israeli air force in Beirut, Lebanon in 1982, on orders of Ariel Sharon, culminating in massive terror bombing of the city center in August of that year. Neither is the 1948 massacre at Deir Yassin remembered or the 1994 mass murder of forty Palestinian worshipers by Baruch Goldstein at a mosque in Hebron. All that Arab blood is mighty cheap as it washes down the memory hole of Western history and media; too cheap to recall, even as the recollection of Jewish victimhood has been some how accorded eternal status.

    ——————————————————————————–

    To blame the victims for this killing spree defies both morality and sense

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/05/israelandthepalestinians.usa

  82. Baruch Goldstien was a wicked, evil murderer. Anyone who glorified him is beneath contempt. I don’t make excuses for terrorists. You do.

  83. So, let me try to understand what you’re saying. The thousands upon thousands of Palestinians killed by Israelis during the past six years were all accidents? The hundreds of “targeted” Palestinians assassinated by Israelis were all accidents? The more than 120 Palestinian paramedics killed by Israelis were all accidents?

    The collective punishment of more than 3,000,000 civilians, the demolition of thousands of homes, the uprooting of thousands of ancient olive groves, the wanton destruction of personal property, the seizure of land, the cancerous spread of illegal settlements, etc., etc.–all accidental?

    Finally, was the following incident (reported by Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem on 31 March 2005) just another unfortunate accident?

    ‘My baby died in my arms at a checkpoint’

    ‘In August 2003, 29-year-old Rula Ashtiya was forced to give birth on the ground, on a dirt road by a checkpoint, after Israeli soldiers refused her passage. Her husband Daoud called the ambulance and was told they should go to the Beit Furik checkpoint between their village and the town of Nablus because the ambulance could not get past.

    Rula said: “We took a taxi and got off before the checkpoint because cars are not allowed near the checkpoint and we walked the rest of the way; I was in pain. At the checkpoint there were several soldiers; they were drinking coffee or tea and ignored us. Daoud spoke to them in Hebrew; I was in pain and felt I was going to give birth there and then; I told Daoud, who translated what I said to the soldiers but they did not let us pass.

    “I was lying on the ground and I crawled behind a concrete block by the checkpoint to have some privacy and gave birth there in the dust, like an animal. I held the baby in my arms and she moved a little but after a few minutes she died in my arms.”

    Her weeping husband cut the umbilical chord with a stone.’

  84. Before the start of the procession well-known rabbis eulogized Goldstein and commended the murder. Rabbi Israel Ariel, for example, said: “The holy martyr, Baruch Goldstein, is from now on our intercessor in heaven. Goldstein did not act as an individual; he heard the cry of the land of Israel, which is being stolen from us day after day by the Muslims. He acted to relieve that cry of the land!” Toward the end of his eulogy Rabbi Ariel added: “The Jews will inherit the land not by any peace agreement but only by shedding blood.” Ben-Shoshan Yeshu’a, a Jewish underground member, sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and amnestied after a few years spent under luxurious hotel conditions, lauded Goldstein and praised his action as an example for other Jews to follow.

  85. Tim R,
    you made this statement:”..Also, what really makes me sick is the way some Muslims in Gaza, Lebannon and other places were actually celebrating the deaths of innocent people yesterday (just like they did on 9/11) When a major HAMAS terrorsist is killed I never see Jews or Americans singing and dancing in the streets. In fact, I once asked a Rabbi what is a proper reaction when a Jew hears that a dangerous HAMAS terrorist has been killed. He said the proper reaction is to say, “How sad! How unfortunate that we had no choice but to do that.”

    That is far cry from dancing in the streets! ”

    Implying that Israelis as humans would not celebrate the killings of some who they pereciev to be their enemies.Only muslims do that!?The media will cover that for weeks and weeks.But Israelis celebrating the destruction of the world trade center would be presented as ‘ middle eastren looking persons’ for short time then is completly buried.wThe answer of the Rabbi you asked is like the a medical doctor saying smoking is no good,but some people will smoke regardless of the medical advice.

  86. That “Hiding Behind Civilians” line by Israel was fully and completely dealt with by Lawrence of Cyberia here:

    http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/08/hiding_behind_c.html

    Its the Israelis who handcuff Palestinian children to their armored jeeps as they drive thru occupied territories.

  87. Charley Reese hits the nail right on the head here. And as I have stated before, this is not our fight and if certain Americans want to be involved, they should renounce their American citizenship, leave the US and go fight for what they believe in. And I am including the deluded and ignorant Christian Zionists in this group:

    http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=12480

  88. Palestine: Blood Is in the Air :

    http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=11194

    on media reporting:

    http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=10075

    The Legend of the
    Removed Checkpoints

    http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=10832

    ————————————————

    So after 21 months of violence, a ray of hope could be observed. A chance for cease-fire, for a cessation of violence. Unilaterally even, without any demands from occupying side. Israel’s reaction was immediate and swift. “One and a half hours after the Tanzim leadership approved the document at its Jenin gathering, Israel carried out the assassination of Salah Shehadeh, in the course of which dozens of civilians were killed and wounded as well. In this way, Israel apparently destroyed the chance to test the viability of a cease-fire” (ibid.).

    http://antiwar.com/hacohen/?articleid=793

  89. “So they bless people and call them heroic when they kill innocent people? What if Israe intentionally killed 7 innocent students today and then an Israeli spokesperson called it “heroic” and “blessed” the people that carried it out? The outrage and condemnation would be heard around the world! But for HAMAS and people in Gaza to celebrate, that’s ok right? I mean, come on people, and I the only one that sees the hypocracy in this?
    ..

    widely reported in the Hebrew press but given little place in the foreign press, that within two days of the massacre the walls of religious neighborhoods of west Jerusalem (and to a lesser extent of many other religious neighborhoods) were covered by posters extolling Goldstein’s virtues and complaining that he did not manage to kill more Arabs. Children of religious settlers who came to Jerusalem to demonstrate sported buttons for months after the massacre that were inscribed: “Dr. Goldstein cured Israel’s ills.” Numerous concerts of Jewish religious music and other events often developed into demonstrations of tribute to Goldstein. The Hebrew press reported these incidents of public tribute in copious detail. No major politician protested against such celebrations….

    Before the start of the procession well-known rabbis eulogized Goldstein and commended the murder. Rabbi Israel Ariel, for example, said: “The holy martyr, Baruch Goldstein, is from now on our intercessor in heaven. Goldstein did not act as an individual; he heard the cry of the land of Israel, which is being stolen from us day after day by the Muslims. He acted to relieve that cry of the land!” Toward the end of his eulogy Rabbi Ariel added: “The Jews will inherit the land not by any peace agreement but only by shedding blood.” Ben-Shoshan Yeshu’a, a Jewish underground member, sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and amnestied after a few years spent under luxurious hotel conditions, lauded Goldstein and praised his action as an example for other Jews to follow.

    http://theunjustmedia.com/the%20real_significance_of_baruch_goldstein.htm#bottom

  90. “We cannot expect much analysis in the media of why the Mercaz HaRav yeshiva might have been chosen as a target. Was it mere coincidence that the school, named for Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, and led after his death by his son Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, is the ideological cradle of the militant, Jewish supremacist settler movement Gush Emunim?

    Unlike other sects in Israel which sought exemption of their students from military service, Gush Emunim encouraged its followers to join the army and become the armed wing of religious nationalist Zionism. Gush Emunim settlers, many of them, like Moshe Levinger, graduates of Mercaz HaRav, founded the most extreme and racist settlements in the Occupied West Bank, including the notorious colonies in and near Hebron whose inhabitants have made life miserable for Palestinians in the city and forced many of them out of their homes. It is the militant settlers of Gush Emunim who still honor Baruch Goldstein who murdered 29 Palestinians in Hebron in February 1994. It is in Hebron that the Gush Emunim settlers spray “Arabs to the gas chambers” on Palestinian houses.”

    http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/the-sheeple-are-silent-but-israels-voice-is-heard-worldwide/

  91. Salem S,

    You really disgust me. And so do people like yourself. What happend at that Yeshiva was pure, cold blooded MURDER. Period.
    In 94 when Goldstien killed all those Palestinains that was pure cold blooded murder too. I don’t make excuses. Murder is murder. So stop making excuses and trying to rationalize evil.

  92. Tim,
    I simply stated facts that you thought,because of the lack of coverage by the media in the U.S., no one would able to chalange your statment”Also, what really makes me sick is the way some Muslims in Gaza, Lebannon and other places were actually celebrating the deaths of innocent people yesterday (just like they did on 9/11) When a major HAMAS terrorsist is killed I never see Jews or Americans singing and dancing in the streets. In fact, I once asked a Rabbi what is a proper reaction when a Jew hears that a dangerous HAMAS terrorist has been killed. He said the proper reaction is to say, “How sad! How unfortunate that we had no choice but to do that.”

    The fact is indeed some jews celebrated the killings of Palestnians as the case of the terrorist Baruch Goldstein.

    I leave to others to judge.

  93. Well, actually there already is such a thing (sort of).

    Some time ago, Bush was speaking infront of AIPAC.

    Behind him was a large Star-spanlge banner, with yellow stars of David in the white stripes.
    I only know of this from print reporting, not actual pics.

    Has anyone ever seen and saved that picture and could repost it? It should get more publicity

  94. Chris,

    what the Zionists did (ethnic cleansing through terror), can’t ultimately be seen as all that wrong, if one has no qualms with what happened in Europe after WWII ended.

    Look at what was done with all the German civilians in the territories annexed by the USSR & Poland, as well as in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, etc. No one feels that to be wrong.

    Or look at the ethnic cleansing of Poles by the USSR from western Ukraine, Byelorussia.

    Or any of the cleansings done in the Balkans in the last 15 years, the last being the ethnic cleansing of the Serbs BY THE Albanians in Kosovo under the blind eye of the UN.

    And of course there is Tibet.

    All are the same, so Israel has no obligation to change, so long as the West refuses to talk about the above and to condemn it.

    As to the Balfour declaration, if you google it enough, you will see that the Declaration was payback for getting the US (despite overwhelming popular opposition) into WWI. GB and France were about finished in 1917, and only the US entry saved their hide. For that, for the GB to give away something they did not own in the first place (Ottoman Empire territory), was a small prive to pay.

  95. what the Zionists did (ethnic cleansing through terror), can’t ultimately be seen as all that wrong, if one has no qualms with what happened in Europe after WWII ended.

    Look at what was done with all the German civilians in the territories annexed by the USSR & Poland, as well as in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, etc. No one feels that to be wrong.

    Or look at the ethnic cleansing of Poles by the USSR from western Ukraine, Byelorussia.

    Or any of the cleansings done in the Balkans in the last 15 years, the last being the ethnic cleansing of the Serbs BY THE Albanians in Kosovo under the blind eye of the UN.

    And of course there is Tibet.

    All are the same, so Israel has no obligation to change, so long as the West refuses to talk about the above and to condemn it.

    As to the Balfour declaration, if you google it enough, you will see that the Declaration was payback for getting the US (despite overwhelming popular opposition) into WWI. GB and France were about finished in 1917, and only the US entry saved their hide. For that, for the GB to give away something they did not own in the first place (Ottoman Empire territory), was a small prive to pay.

  96. Any one out there who can explain what Mr.Chris is saying would be much apperciated.

  97. [...] As if the near $3 billion in US military aid to Israel last year wasn’t enough of an indication that America devalues Palestinian life, Congress passed a resolution (404 – 1) last Wednesday condemning Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel–not Israel’s siege on Gaza, which in a spat of attacks last week killed more than 100 people. In fact, the resolution actually vindicates these attacks by saying, “the inadvertent inflicting of civilian casualties as a result of defensive military operations aimed at military targets, while deeply regrettable, is not at all morally equivalent to the deliberate targeting of civilian populations as practiced by Hamas and other Gaza-based terrorist groups.” [...]

  98. “The Five-Day war in Gaza (as a Hamas leader called it) was but another short chapter in the Israeli-Palestinian struggle. This bloody monster is never satisfied; its appetite just grows with the eating.

    This chapter started with the “targeted liquidation” of five senior militants inside the Gaza Strip. The “response” was a salvo of rockets, and this time not only on Sderot, but also on Ashkelon and Netivot. The “response” to the “response” was the army’s incursion and the wholesale killing.

    The stated aim was, as always, to stop the launching of the rockets. The means: killing a maximum of Palestinians, in order to teach them a lesson. The decision was based on the traditional Israeli concept: hit the civilian population again and again, until it overthrows its leaders. This has been tried hundreds of times and has failed hundreds of times.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/

  99. Pingback by Devaluing Palestinian Life : Bryan Farrell .com

    …..while deeply regrettable, is not at all morally equivalent to the deliberate targeting of civilian populations as practiced by Hamas and other Gaza-based terrorist groups.” ..

    In effect, Congress has given the green light to kill innocent people, so long as it’s not intentional. But as historian Howard Zinn has pointed out, this is really just a false distinction.

    If a bomb is deliberately dropped on a house or a vehicle on the grounds that a “suspected terrorist” is inside (note the frequent use of the word suspected as evidence of the uncertainty surrounding targets), the resulting deaths of women and children may not be intentional. But neither are they accidental. The proper description is “inevitable.” So if an action will inevitably kill innocent people, it is as immoral as a deliberate attack on civilians.

  100. This is one of teh many times Ron Paul is the only NO vote. They call him Dr. No for a reason. Even if you don’t agree with the guy on everything he surely is the anti-war candidate and he is very honest and principled.

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