‹ Joe Klein on Conflated Loyalties •
A round of applause to the AWC researchers that copiously scour the internet looking for stories.
One of the gems on the frontpage involves a recent timeline of economic relations between China and Taiwan since the election of Ma. Notice how it is almost the exact opposite of what the current US administration has towards Iran.
There is an old parable attributed to Frederic Bastiat which states that when goods and services do not cross borders, armies will.
One of the underlying reasons for why this observation typically holds true is that businesses and patrons have personal wealth at stake and can pressure the political class and military brass to be more diplomatic in negotiating with foreign states.
After all, in order to remain solvent, businesses do not want their employees, enterprises, buildings or customers to be blown up.
As a consequence to warming relations, in 2007 alone, cross-strait trade between China and Tawain grew 16% to more than $100 billion.
In contrast, for nearly three decades, the US federal government has levied both sanctions and penalties on firms that conduct business with Iranians. And HR 362 will amplify this imperial boycott to the extreme, with a naval blockade.
Yes, and tax money is even available to the Cheney Clan and others to influence media to demonize Iran, as was witnessed last year when Readers Digest named Iran as one of our three worse enemies, with phony details, and constantly now CNN and other networks interviewing individuals who fabricate against Iran.
Also consider America’s crazy policy towards Cuba. Why not trade with Cuba? Why not do as much business as possible with the island? Building trade ties gives you influence. As it is now the USA has no leverage it can use with Cuba.
Not many Canadians wept for the passing of Helms this past week. We remember his screed against Canadians for daring to shuck the Helms-Burton Act and openly trade and allow our citizens (and Americans through our airlines) to visit Cuba.
Amazing process that: open trade leads to talking, talking leads to more trade, openness and a relaxation of any hostilities.
Hehe…warming relations huh?
Taiwan is a part of China…Taiwan has bought weapons systems from the US for the purposes of gaining independence from China proper: China will attack Taiwan at some point in the near future and quickly reabsorb this tiny island and its citizenry. Of course the US will have to respond…if you think an attack on Iran would be a disaster…lol XD
Let’s assume you are right. WHY does the U.S. “have” to respond? Is Mexico going to respond? Canada? Why can’t the USA just mind its own business? Taiwan island is no more important then Hainin island is. Why does the USA always have to be the Lone Ranger of the world? Nobody appointed the USA the “Dirty Harry” of the world. I think those guys in Washington watched too many episodes of ‘have gun will travel’ when they were kids.
I think it’s a matter of US law…The “We love Taiwanese Goods Act” err something like that
lol :D
Mexico and Canada will respond once the North American Union is formed.
Those “guys in Washington” are simply doing what the american sheeple let them get away with! Make no mistake brother, it’s the american sheeple who are to blame for every dirty, underhanded thing that the US government has ever done, anywhere in the world!! Why? Because this is a democracy (or, rather, has been twisted into one!): they vote for what they want AND are criminally complacent…ergo it’s the common american ding-a-ling who is the real danger to the world!
I gotta go…UFC is coming on! ;)
criminally complacent.
It’s criminal to not interfere with others committing murder supposedly on your behalf? By that logic, people that bomb abortion clinics on behalf of the Christian faith ought to be put in jail along with every other Christian.
What about those that claim the US isn’t democratic? They make alot of good points, one of them being that warmaking by neocon elites have nothing to do with their preferences, or are antithetical to them, yet they are unable to exit the “pact” with these jagoffs because they must pay taxes under threat of punishment.
Those “guys in Washington” are simply doing what the american sheeple let them get away with!
I let people get away with robbery everyday, by simply sitting on my ass at home or at work.
Your logic is flawed…in the first instance: “…people that bomb abortion clinics on behalf of the Christian faith ought to be put in jail along with every other Christian.” We don’t vote for christians who might then bomb a clinic…we do vote for politicians who then, supposedly, work for us to do our collective bidding and can be punished by “we the people” if they don’t.
In the second instance: “I let people get away with robbery everyday, by simply sitting on my ass at home or at work.” Here, your logic would be right on the money if YOU were the one being robbed…otherwise it’s a ludicrous assertion.
It’s beginning to dawn on some of the sheeple that in order to bring the politicians to heel…lots of painful stuff will have to be done! Given the rapid advances of technology, if we don’t act soon we’ll be under an unbreakable tyranny!
I predict that Taiwan will continue to normalize relations with China, especially as the center of economic growth shifts to Asia. A few years ago, their collusion with the USA as a guarantee of their independence from China was logical since the USA was the major world power. Now that China is quietly creeping up on the USA in world business and financial dominance, Taiwan will truly see that its best future is a closer alignment with the mainland. If China were to call in its loans to the USA (over 2 trillion dollars), the US dollar would devalue considerably against other world currencies and Wall Street would crash. You can thank George Bush and his sharp cronies for not paying for their illegal wars by giving and giving tax cuts. This presidency has doubled the national debt from 5 to about 10 trillion dollars that will have to be paid back by the children and grand-children of today’s workers. And yes, the average American does not give this dire situation much thought.
I work for a Taiwanese company that has both Taiwanese
and Chinese employees (located in Texas.) They get along
with each other quite happily (Tai’s and Chinese.)
Both the Chinese and Taiwanese consider a possible war
in the straight complete nonsense.
They laugh outloud at the thought of war and consider it
an absurdity.
Funny how they get along so well but it is our govt.
that is so shrill on the subject.
Taiwan is not a part of China, and has never been part of the PRC.
Taiwan is in fact independent in every respect: its laws, politics, government, etc. are all completely separate and distinct from those of China.
Taiwan also is a functioning democracy, with full religious and political freedom.
Love of peace should not mean abandoning Taiwan to Chinese aggression.
“Love of peace should not mean abandoning Taiwan to Chinese aggression”,,
If YOU want to die for Taiwan friend, be MY guest. I certainly am NOT going to die for an obscure island 8,000 miles from America that is superflous to my security.
Hopefully support will be in a form to prevent a war - by providing weapons and training to Taiwan. Another important step would be a Free Trade Agreement with Taiwan to strengthen their economy. For those of us who love Taiwan, the question of winning a war in support of Taiwan’s independence is not the question. Whether Taiwan surrenders to China (with or without a fight) or whether Taiwan wins independence through war, damage to millions of lives. We don’t want war, and we don’t want slavery. We want freedom and peace. We need to take action before it becomes a question of whether Americans need to die too.
Dear C:
Stop living in the past and stop deluding yourself. Be brave and be part of the future that China is shaping. Taiwan will be a part of that future…as a part of China…
Taiwan is free and democratic.
China is not.
May it stay that way for 10,000 years.
獨立的台灣萬歲, 萬歲, 萬萬歲
共匪可以去吃黨屎
That SHOULD be up to the people OF Taiwan, NOT the people OF the United States.
Taiwan ain’t stupid. They realize that America’s empire is finished and broke. China good, Americans bad. Even Japan sees the light. Americans are terrorists and can’t be trusted.Sugar USi daddy is no more.
If the U.S. government had any brains (but it doesn’t) it would withdraw from South Korea, Japan, Okinawa and tell Taiwan it is on its own. Trade with these countries by all means. Have full diplomatic and cultural exchanges. But these countries should be made to understand they are on their own. The great and wonderful ‘free-ride’ on America’s military back is over. It is ridiculous that 55 years after the end of the war that U.S. troops are STILL in South Korea. Google a picture of the Korean peninsula at night to see the INCREDIBLE differrence between the two states.
We shield Taiwan because it allows us to project power.
If Taiwan makes peace with China that projection will
be ended.
The nuclear umbrella is still being sold by America
but the new threat is the “rogue” nation.
As I was growing up, the ongoing threat was
communism and we prayed everyday for the
fall of the Soviet Union. We used to hide under our
school desks once a month to practice being buried alive.
Well, the Soviet Union fell. So where’s the Peace?!
The military-civil establishment has no
interest in world peace. World peace will put them
out of business and out of power so it’s war, war, war
and fear, fear, fear all the time.
It’s a marketing strategy I’ve lived with and seen in
action my entire life, my ENTIRE life.
It is now being sold to the next generation of young
Americans and it makes me weep to see them buying it.
How can they help but to love America and trust its
government? They are young, full of hope and faith.
But older Americans know better. Shame on them.
Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that
believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were
hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
There is no American projection of power through Taiwan. I suspect few — if any — of the people in this discussion have visited Taiwan. If you did, you would have to admit there is simply no American military presence there. You see much US military in Germany and Japan — _that_ is projection of power.
Taiwan is an independent, sovereign nation. Peace with China is a good goal. But for Taiwan, that peace as it is now formulated means losing democracy and freedom by becoming yet another oppressed part of China.
Americans should strengthen support of Taiwan.
獨立的台灣萬歲!
But WHY should Americans die for Taiwan sir? You have never been able to give an adequate reason for this. Your comments are vague. What EXACTLY do you MEAN by “support”. Should 10,000 American servicemen die in the defense of Taiwan? I don’t want to see one single American soldier killed because of Taiwan.
Baloney.
I work with many Tai’s and Chinese.
They are already at peace.
Power is projected through treaty,
not just presence.
Yeah, well, if we look at history…. troops and traders cross boarders at the same time. It’s called colonialism, and it’s alive and well in our present capitalist empire.
For all you warhawks that think you understand Chinese
relations here’s a reality check:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080708_taiwan_declares_peace_on_china/
How sad that we Americans are all prepped for a great war
but then the Tai’s and Chinese defuse tensions with TRADE.
How disappointing.
American warhawks need to pull their heads out of their butts.
You want war, death and mayhem?
Go buy yourself a video game you childish idiots.
By the way…
Walmart has done more for world peace in the last
10 years than the Pentagon has done in the last 100.
lmao! There’s an article dated July 13 here on anti-war.com: Taiwanese leader says US weapons still needed in spite of “warming” relations with China! XD
War is highly unlikely. Life is good for everyone — 2 million of Taiwanese living and working, plus billions of dollars from Taiwan invested, in China. All China and Taiwan want is status quo - to make money not war. Taiwan is not pushing for independent, and China not for unification. Taiwan is a de facto independent country anyway. Besides a few ideologues, most Taiwanese are content with the current arrangement. From Chinese point of view, war is the last resort to prevent Taiwan declaring independent. Chinese leadership has no interest invading Taiwan and Taiwan leadership has no interest declaring independent. They understand that friendly relationship between China and Taiwan would benefit both sides, less chance of war and more opportunities to make money.
@ Gil: If you think that China is just going to allow Taiwan to keep buying weapons from the US indefinitely you’re dreaming! Chinese leadership has a very keen interest in reunification!! WTF! XD
@ little guy. Taiwan has been buying weapons from the US for the last 40, 50 years. China doesn’t like it, but has learned to live with it. As long as Taiwan doesn’t seek WMDs, China would not lose sleep over it. Sometimes Taiwan buys weapons from the US because it wants to, and sometimes it buys even when it doesn’t want to. (e.g. Uncle Sam/defense contractors would pressure Taiwan into buying 5 good airplanes and 50 other crappy items that nobody wants.)
The president of Taiwan(he was born in China and earned an S.J.D. degree from Harvard Law School in 1981.) has publicly stated that Taiwan would not get into an arm race with China. Taiwan is a tiny Island. It would be suicidal if Taiwan seeks WMDs, and it can’t outspend China. So military confrontation with China is not the best way to go about it.
I agree that Chinese leadership has a very keen interest in reunification. Their #1 priority is to prevent Taiwan from breaking away from China, and they would invade Taiwan if that happens. However, that is different than pushing reunification by force. From Deng to the current Chinese leadership, their core doctrine has been that reunification is a task that can be taken care of by the “next generation” when it can be achieved by peace and not by war.
The economy between China and Taiwan is so intertwined now that they have come to mutual understanding that war is the worst solution. The relationship between the two sides is very cozy now. In the foreseeable future, Taiwan won’t make a move for independent, and China won’t make a move for reunification. Thus, status quo continues. And as their relationship gets closer and closer, the chance of war gets lower and lower.
@ Gil: Taiwan has cunningly sought to position itself as a friend and ally of the US…like Israel, it’s relationship to the US is one of parasite/host. This position is irreconcilable with the One-China policy…therefore Taiwan must/will be reabsorbed by force. Period!
China will wait until the IsraelUS attacks Iran and is hopelessly mired in a three front conflagration…only then will it attack Taiwan. Hehe, the Chinese are not going to wait around while the US gets more and more powerful.
The Chinese have been repeatedly humiliated by the ultra cozy US-Taiwan relationship…lol, Taiwan is already a “dead man walking”!
I know it’s hard for an american to understand but: some things in life are much more important than money!
You seem to have no grasp of what “one-China” policy is and what it means, and your comparison of US-Taiwan and US-Israel relationships is totally ridiculous. As for China/Taiwan reunification, maybe you should read up on “the art of fighting without fighting”.