Ray McGovern

War With Iran to Keep Us in Iraq?


Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern discusses his recent article on the probable Israeli/U.S. attack on Iran, Israel’s need for new war in Iran to keep the U.S. military in the Mideast due to the failure in Iraq, the outspokenness of the military brass against an attack on Iran, AIPAC’s drafting of the new Iran war resolutions, Bush and Cheney’s loyalty to Israel, the never-ending conflicts created by the Israel occupation of Palestine, the need for the American people and Congress to understand the catastrophe that would ensue from attacking Iran and the urgency of impeachment.

MP3 here. (48:57)

Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years – from the John F. Kennedy administration to that of George H. W. Bush and is a co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

23 thoughts on “Ray McGovern”

  1. Good interview. My take is that Pelosi and Conyers would love to Impeach the President but they want to make sure there s general public support for it. By having the unofficial Impeachment hearings they can test the waters and they can let the President know they are serious about Conyers’ letter promising to Impeach the President if the US Invades Iraq. Because no one wants another war.

    See here:

  2. Israel is not ready to set its borders yet is the short simple answer to the perplexing foreign policies of both the US and Israel.

  3. Let’s assume the United States launches a limited bombing raid on Iran, attempting to destroy key military and nuclear sites. What could we expect over the next few hours and days?

    1. The cost of oil will rise, within minutes, to at least $8 a gallon on fundamentals, and will rise further as speculators perceive a rising bubble to invest in, driving prices to at least $10 a gallon and possibly more. Iran would not need to retaliate to make this happen; even credible threats of disrupting shipping would make tanker companies too nervous to sail their ships through the Persian Gulf.

    2. Iranian proxies, mostly Shia militias in Iraq and the Pashtuns in Afghanistan will start receiving some top-quality Iranian small arms, like tracking shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, anti-tank land mines, mortars, sniper rifles etc. With these new munitions, it will be a simple trick for the Iraqi resistance to make helicopter travel impossible within Iraq or sections of Afghanistan, as well as to mine and block the U.S. supply lines, forcing U.S. forces to either retreat, remain under siege in bombarded bases with diminishing supplies, or get involved in bloody and ineffectual ground battles with insurgents to keep supply lines open. If Iran can block the Straight of Hormuz, most U.S. resupply will be blocked right there.

    3. Iran has purchased the most advanced anti-ship missiles currently in existence, the Russian-made ‘Sunburn’ class. No one knows for sure whether these missiles can defeat U.S. capital ship defenses, but it looks likely, especially if Iran combines them in their attack with dummy missles, swarming attacks or other strategies. If Iran can sink or disable a U.S. aircraft carrier, it will effectively end the U.S. global empire right there. The U.S. depends on its aircraft carriers to project force and establish ‘air superiority’ over the battlefield. If relatively cheap Russian missiles have made aircraft carriers obsolete, they have also rendered the U.S. empire obsolete. It is as simple as that. If the ‘Sunburn’ lives up to its billing, expect small countries which feel threatened by the U.S. to line up in Moscow to purchase anti-ship missiles.

    4. Since the U.S. dollar and economy are largely backed by the credible threat of U.S. military force, the damage done to the U.S. military, the free-falling support in the U.S. for militarism, and the likely obsolescence of the U.S. Navy which would follow in the wake of an attack would also collapse the U.S dollar and economy. Nations which currently back pro-U.S., pro-corporate policies out of fear would see an opportunity to run for the exits all at once. The effect on the U.S. economy will be catastrophic; not only will gas prices be unaffordable, so will most goods and services, while at the same time corporations which depend on U.S. military might will collapse in value on the stock market. Most banks will collapse as customers default on loans and withdraw savings, and soup kitchens will become the preferred source of sustinence for the American people. The U.S. government will either default on its debts, or hyperinflate its currency into wallpaper.

    5. The American people, slow witted as we are, will be clever enough to discern that the collapse of our economy, the collapse of our currency and the destruction of our military are all due to the bipartisan political leadership in Washington. If government attempts to provide food for the hungry masses fail, order will collapse and sections of the U.S. will be in open revolt against Washington D.C. The current government may be able to hold on by sheer force for a limited period, but ultimately it will be so discredited and so wracked by failure that it will quickly fall. Anti-militarist, anti-corporatist and anti-Federalist forces would soon take political power within the U.S., and likely abolish the current political and economic elite, forming a new Republic along new lines.

  4. Baccus:

    Iran does not have Sunburn missiles. If you are playing armchair Admiral, then maybe you should get your facts straight…or go back the bathtub with your rubber ducky, the only command you are competent to assume.

  5. I think that the purpose of the US showing up at the Geneva talks: the so-called “policy shift” is as a preface to a false-flag “terrorist” operation blamed on Iran, the US will then respond with the “see, you can’t talk to these people, we’ll have to bomb them”

  6. jreb
    the idea is not what weapons they do or do not have it is that we are about to get in to deep and that will sets thingss off here that no one is prepared for

  7. To Paul B. : exactly. Regardless of any quibbles about exactly what sort of missiles Iran has, jreb doesn’t want us to get the larger point, which is that an attack on Iran will be a cataclysmic disaster for the US. Among the consequences not mentioned by bacchus is that the American people may suddenly and in massive numbers come to the jarring realization that Israel has been our real enemy all along.

    I hope the American people will let Israel and people like jreb know just how they feel about this.

  8. Iran doesn’t have nuclear weapons capability or, even if they did, the means with which to deploy them either but that doesn’t stop Bush and his ilk from “playing armchair admiral.”

  9. Regardless of whether Iran has the “Sunburn,” they certainly have the “C-102,” which they used to succesfully hit one of Israel’s best ships recently when Israel attempted to invade their neighbor to the North. Iran certainly has dozens of “C-102s,” and has probably reverse-engineered them and is producing them locally. In that case, Iran must have hundreds or thousands of C-102 knockoffs. They also have “Exocets.”


  10. Iran likely also has the 3M-54 Klub (3M-54E) “Sizzler” variant. According to wikipedia;

    “The Sizzler variant (3M-54E) flies at subsonic speeds while going supersonic as it nears its target. It is also believed to be able to perform very high angled defensive maneuvers in contrast to the common linear flight path of other anti-ship cruise missiles.[1]”

    Sounds fun! Israel’s best ships can’t defeat the inferior C-102s, I wouldn’t want to see how the U.S. Navy does against the “Sizzlers!”

    Evidence Iran has “Sizzlers”:

  11. If Putin and his successor are smart ( and they are ) they should be selling the Iranians their best at cost…Their subs could really bottleneck the Strait as well…..All most Americans know, though, is what happened in ’79..not when we overthrew Moussadeq in ’53 and put the Shah in power…One dumbass even told me “the French” put the Ayatollah in power..Not realizing that they merely gave him asylum the way any decent country would..what were they supposed to do? Kill him on sight because he was an enemy of America’s puppet in Tehran?
    Please America, come home! Give up empire and just be a normal country again..

  12. the legendary Bill
    “Please America, come home! Give up empire and just be a normal country again..”
    i some how doubt that in the year 2009 a democratic congress that support both fronts in our southwest asian war has taken impeachment off the table(a point one can say that we have reached dictatorship.
    the boys are not coming home they will be the blod of this empire and they will die for the greedy elites who will lose there power any way
    it gona be a sad future here in america and im just really getting worried about what will happen to the poor urban class who will be cut off when shit hits the fan i liven in nyc and have no real idea of what to do about this other than learn to march in goose step….

  13. Im impressed with these comments- you people seem to be doing your homework. Think Ill sit back and learn something : )

  14. "Im impressed with these comments- you people seem to be doing your homework. Think Ill sit back and learn something : )"

    don't do that….

    if you are even here you are a head of most the country so go out and show it to someone else

  15. Scott you had not heard this explication yet? Are you serious? I said it on your show on July 3rd The Oded Yinon plan. How the Zionists lied us into war and had the war with Iraq planned since 1979.

    “Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other, is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel’s targets. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel. An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against us. Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and in Lebanon. In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi’ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north. It is possible that the present Iranian-Iraqi confrontation will deepen this polarization.”

    http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=9538 read the whole thing

    look the MIC doesn’t care about the economic disaster that would happen after an attack on Iran. Destroying the middle Class is a goal. We went to war for Israel/MIC. Each pre-wr lie came from this dual citizen Israeli cabal in the OVP.

    Look up Iraq , 911, PNAC, All roads lead to Israel. Just google it. 200 thousand people have read it. Probably more than many antiwar.com articles. I wrote it years ago.

    Ask McGovern about 911. Do it in private. He’ll tell you the same things I have been.

  16. “This war and the war for Iraq are for Israel.”

    to over simplify this problem is a great deserves to those try to resist it
    yes israel is a problem
    but how sovereign is a country totally dependent on another.
    and how does israel fit in to afgainstan (besides helping arm the mujahdeen)

  17. ray is doing a great job, but does he realize what he supported when he was with the cia? here is a quote from another forum i just read:

    “Peace was never a central theme in US foreign policy. Just take a look at the CIA’s dirty laundry, at the little wars the US participated, either as a supporter of one side, or as an active military force. All the coups, assassinations, death squads, all the dictators it supported… What Bush does is simply a more open continuation of this policy. They realized they don’t have to work with the whole cloak-and-dagger routine, and became bold. God save our souls.”

  18. An attack upon Iran would be devastating, to Iran and Iran only.
    If Iran even tries to hit at Saudi?Kuwait oil fields the Saudis will hit back with everything they have in partnership with Israel US France Qtar,and all the other UAE financial entities.
    Iran , and for that matter the world has not seen the firepower available to the Euros and US/Israel militarys.

    the amount of aircraft available to hit Iran are not just those in local theater for with refuleing those from Japan Korea and even US are available.

    Less than 1/10th of US military has even been near Iran or Iraq and the vaunted S.E Asian fleet alone has more firepower than Iran.

    One wonders if a lot of this arm chair quaterbacking is nto just wishfull thinking by those who oppose attacking Iran as the facts dealing with Iranian capabilitys are just the opposite of what they wish for.

    Much is made of Nuclear weaponry but in truth the forms of munitons and delivery capability of forces arrayed against Iran today are just as powerfull if not more so in battlefield conditions as would be nukes.

    No one other than those in the highest reaches knows the full capability of our newest weaponry as in pulse beams already being put in place on board ships for defenseive means, and our eyes in the sky can indeed spot anything below them.

    A tactic used in Iraq was to make populace believe that they indeed were facing a powerfull enemy and our elected and military players did it for two reasons, to make victory seem that much more heroic and awesome in the eyes of public expecting thousands of deaths;See war is not so bad; and to gain funding for new equipment and manpower.

    It worked, and is still working, for Iraq doubly well when it came to equipment, when the anti war warriors joined in the chorus of our men qnd boys are gerting hurt because they lack armored vest, vehicles, and that we sent too few men inot country.

    Arm chair warriors playing with toy soldiers while a over a million deaths and 3 million maimed and displaced live within the real world of death and destruction.

    What will the armchair wariors say when over 2 million Iranian die within a month and maybe as amny as 5,000 Euros are dead and wounded?

    Iran can send 5 million if they want and it would nto bother in the least nor ake but around 1/3rd of our military power to destroy.

    Of course the Pentagon, Defense, State Department, Democracy lovers, Executive Branch Supporters are always in a crisis, that is what gives them money and power.
    The anti-war warriors in the bureaucracy and their pink followers say at least give them more pay, shorter time on the batlefields, better protective equipment and more benfits such as college, housing loans, and medical care when they come home.

    Millions of armchairs talking of what ifs, while people are getting slaughtered.

  19. Hide Behind –
    i really doupt that iran will attack at us or our allies in symertical way

    they are patient and i would not be surprised if the first counter attacks would be more than a year after we attack

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