Scott Horton Interviews Glenn Greenwald

Scott Horton, August 19, 2008

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Glenn Greenwald, legal affairs columnist and blogger for Salon.com and author of Great American Hypocrites, discusses the FBI and national media’s attempt to hijack the truth surrounding the anthrax case, their post-mortem conviction of Bruce Ivins, the left/right/libertarian realignment against the warfare/police state and Glenn’s interview with Mort Halperin about his flip-flop on the Constitution-shredding FISA amendments bill.

MP3 here. (19:54)

Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times bestselling books How Would a Patriot Act? and A Tragic Legacy. His latest is Great American Hypocrites.

28 Responses to “Glenn Greenwald”

  1. Hey guys, I’m going to give you guys a little info. We have more than enough oil here in the U.S. to live happily ever after and never import a drop from the Middle East. We don’t “”need the their oil.” We are at war because the traitors in D.C. won’t develop the pipelines to keep us supplied. Wake UP!

  2. Reading and listening to Glenn Greenwald is like a following a great detective novel. He plies the almost forgotten trade of rigorous logic. May his star keep rising.

  3. Am I the only one who suspects that B. anthracis is a hot-air bust as a ‘bioweapon’. Mr. Greenwald – there is no such thing as ‘wet spores’. The inactive spore form develops to protect the metabolically active bacillus from the effects of dessication. This is how soil organisms survive in general. Once placed in a susceptible host organism (in the 19th century the pioneering German biologist Robert Koch infected rabbits with B. anthracis to develop the famous ‘Koch Postulates’ proving that bacteria, rather than ‘vapors’ caused infectious disease) or on the appropriate medium in a test tube – the spore form is activated and reverts to its ‘bacillary’ form capable of causing disease. Spores exist in the soil and when inhaled by ruminants cause a deadly disease of herd animals. In order to cause disease in humans who are not a natural host – a lot of spores (the numbers have been worked out in primates – as the LD50 or a dose in capable of killing 50% of experimental animals) have to be inhaled down through the upper airways and a sufficient number have to make their way to the lungs where they activate in a moist, nutrient rich environment and do their damage. Healthy people have been blessed very effective protective mechanisms in their airways to filter these out – such as high humidity from the nasal sinses, mucus producted by the bronchi, ciliated cells and the cough reflex. The disease cannot be passed from human to human – except by direct innoculation. Not trying to diminish the danger of anthrax once it is establish in the lungs of a human victim or its impact on the cattle, goat, sheep and camel industry – but this lurid hoax on the public imagination has generated an industry which consumed up over $50 billion dollars of public money since Clinton first raised the spector… Work it out: Over $10 billion spent for each of the 5 anthrax letter fatalities. Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur – who were truly concerned about ‘public’ health must be looking down and crying.
    Once upon a time – when faced with a question (like ‘what is anthrax’) we in the educated public would refer to our sophisticated, public health, medical and microbiological text books to refresh our knowledge base. These days we listen to such disinterested parties as the FBI, the New York Time’s Judith Miller, ‘Catastrophic Terroism Theorist’ Philip Zellikow or the Fox News ‘experts du jour’.

  4. the anthrax attack was the second false flag terror event 9-11 was the first

  5. >> Am I the only one who suspects that B. anthracis is a hot-air bust as a ‘bioweapon’.

    Well, if you want to kill lots of people, I guess so. It’s not “worse” than chemical agents and harder to produce AND to deliver, but it stays in the environment for longer and may cause the condemnation of whole buildings/areas for many years or until disinfection. It’s NOT going to self-reproduce, thus it’s somewhat controllable in a military sense.

    Note that in this case, anthrax has NOT been used as “bioweapon” but as a complicated assassination device. Not unlike sniping with a Barret Light 50.

  6. Oh My Says…

    That is the point. Anthrax was blown up in the public’s imagination to create mass hysteria clammering to go to war and willing to fund an industry costing over $50 billion tax payer dollars since 9-11. As for your contention that anthrax contamination forces the closing of buildings and huge de-contamination costs… Says who? The FBI? Fox News? The Vice President? I think building de-contamination for Legionnaire’s disease may be more complicated. This ‘weaponized’ terror clumps up in high humidity and gravity takes care of the rest. This bug is ubiquitous in the soil of cattle raising Texas and causes periodic outbreaks among ruminants.
    The reality is, at least according to conventional medical and microbiological text books: To cause pulmonary disease in a healthy person – thousands of spores have to be inhaled with a sufficient number making it past the clumping effects of the humid nasal sinuses, the trapping effects of the mucus produced in the upper airways, the ‘sweeping out’ mechanism of the ciliated bronchial cells and the ultimate expulsion from the airways by coughing. This is in contrast to the breathless pronouncements by politicians and propagandists that even ‘one bacterial spore’ (Rudi Guiliani called it a ‘virus’), could easily cause fatal infection. And it is exquisitely susceptible to readily availible, cheap antibiotics – and I don’t mean ‘Cipro’ – although systemic infection causes a high rate of death due to ‘septic shock’ – if the diagnosis is delayed.

    If Robert Koch could develop his postulates on the bacterial cause of disease using B. anthracis in rabbits in the mid-19th century without any sophisticated bio-hazard equipment, you have be pretty gulllible to buy the ‘horror’ stories of ‘epidemic’ anthrax infecting hundreds of thousands of human beings exposed in the metro system or at Yankee Stadium …as peddled by this cynical and criminal government.
    I would like to be corrected on the facts and with scientific rationale. I don’t buy the breathless stories of mysterious epidemics in the old Soviet Union as revealed by their so-called ‘exiled scientists’. These characters wormed their way into scores of US academic centers and technical fields fueling the war industry with their ‘inside knowledge, not unlike Ahmed Chalabi in more recent years. They became a kind of cottage industry peddling their anti-Russian expertise to uncritical Americans for years during the Cold War but are now more likely to be peddling alternative medicines and ‘vitamins’ (like the good ‘Doktor’ Ken Alibek, ‘the number two Soviet bio-weapons expert’…who set up an on-line immune-system boosting vitamin business).
    We have been sold a ‘bill of goods’ and the public has been hoodwinked by the cowardly complicity of the American scientific and medical community who should have known better and spoken out. Correct me if I am wrong.

  7. “…Not unlike sniping with a Barret Light 50.”

    Oh yes, I’m sure that clarifies things for everybody….

    You remind me of my friend’s husband, an “early music” specialist. His wife was trying to get through airport security with her cello.

    The dimwit security drone asked her, “What’s in the case?”

    “A cello”, she said.

    “What’s that?” the drone asked.

    Her husband intervened: “It’s a like gamba, but it only has four strings…”

  8. the anthrax attacks are being covered up by the fbi because any investigation will lead directly to the culprits of 9-11 the cia and mossad

  9. Dear Scott —

    I love your interviews, but I have to admit I was a bit amused to hear you say “I’m actually pretty good at conspiracy theories myself and I recognize a conspiracy theory when I see one, and in this case the FBI has conspiracy theory about this guy. Their logic is all backwards, it’s all speculation, ‘let’s see if we can come up with a case to make it seem convincing that this was the guy who did it’.”

    That’s a pretty good description of a cooked up story of how a trillion-spores-per-gram weaponization technology, where every spore is attached to a piece of polymerized glass between one and five microns in diameter and static charged to repel each other — ie., to behave like a gas inside the envelope — “just happened naturally”.

    It’s also a good description of the tall tale that 19 bearded weirdos with box cutters orchestrated by a guy with a laptop in a cave in Afghanistan, tied to a dialysis machine, managed to defeat the only trillion-dollar a year military technology in history and penetrate, with a giant lumbering airliner, the perimeter of their own headquarters — oh, but wait, it gets better — instead of hitting the broad easy (?) target of the middle breadbasket of the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour performs a 270° dive that most lifetime veteran pilots say they could scarcely pull off, makes a final approach at an elevation of twenty feet, ground effect be damned, and hits the only section of the Pentagon that was recently reinforced to withstand attack, and which was occupied by no one other than a few contractor workers, and the Navy accountants (AND their files) who were trying to piece together what happened to the $2.3 trillion that Donny-boy Rumsfeld announced was missing less than 24 hours prior.

    Shall I go on, or are you starting to see a connection with the undercover establishment that obviously sent those letters, dated 9-11-01 though mailed later, who, by the way, still have plenty of that original stash from Batelle, and will use it when it suits their False Flag election needs. Siehst du?

    You would be well advised to listen to this interview with Francis Boyle, the man who wrote the current bio-weapons laws which were unanimously approved by Congress and signed by Bush 41, at this address:
    http://www.proudprimate.com/resources/Francis%20Boyle%20Interview.mp3

    There you can really test your conspiracy theory recognition skills!

  10. Oops — I forgot to sign the above post. Sorry —

  11. Over the past 7 yrs more than 2 dozen of the world’s most esteemed micro-biologists-all of whom were focused on combatting bio-terrorism-have died under questionable circumstances..Now bio-defense pioneer Bruce Ivins committs suicide at Frederick Memorial fm an overdose of Tylenol 3..How he got enough pills to kill himself in a mental hospital is still an open question…( The others have been killed in various ways..one by a sword, one head his head bashed in, one was stabbed, another car-jacked. none died naturally ).
    Has the real culprit been identified, or is there someone else being shielded fm prosecution?

  12. The answer may lie with Dr. Philip M. Zack, a micro-biologist who had already attempted to frame an arab colleague, Dr. Ayad Asaad, for the anthrax scare…Zack, it turns out, is Jewish, and was fired fm his post at Ft. Detrick for continually harassing Dr. Asaad in an extremely discriminatory fashion because he was Arab…Continued visits to the top-secret lab after his dismissal were recorded by security cameras..He was filmed entering Ft. Detrick on several occasions..The individual who illegally let him in was Dr. Marian K. Rippy, also Jewish..

  13. In addition, Zack was well-acquainted with military-grade anthrax, the same type that was used to lace postal packages in ’01…Further evidence implicating the govt were DNA tests linking the original source spores to Fort Detrick…Zack again becomes a prime suspect because the anthrax scare occurred shortly after 9-11..at a time when the neo-cons and Israel were primed to begin their so-called GWOT..

  14. Dr. Zack was known as a rabid ” Arab-hating Jew”, and the letters were written in a way to implicate Muslims…It seems more and more probable that the entire anthrax hysteria was concocted to help justify the neo-con desire for a long war ( with bombings, assassinations and occupation )…Dr. Hatfill and Dr. Ivins seem to have been patsies set-up to divert attention fm Israel-First ( and last ) moles, perhaps like Dr. Zack…

  15. It seems that all it takes is the “J” word and “your comment is awaiting moderation.” Real brave guys..

  16. Bill,

    So now “known,” as in “Dr. Zack was known as a rabid ‘Arab-hating Jew,’” means “Something The Legendary Bill made up and believes because he feels like it,” nothing more?

    If you’re so brave, how come you’re too frightened of Google to do a little fact-checking before polluting my awesome Glenn Greenwald interview post (again) with your bogus assertions and accusations?

  17. The ignorant always slander the brave..why don’t tell me why i’m wrong instead of being a cowardly douche?

  18. Just made up?? How dare you sit there and attack someone who’s more dilligent in searching for the truth? The whole purpose of people like you is to channel these searches into dead-ends that don’t really threaten the truly guilty….Maybe my sister’s boyfriend is right and you guys are a CIA front..

  19. “Believes because he feels like it” Well, show me how I’m wrong, go ahead….still waiting..Actuallly you don’t have anything to offer except your distaste for the truthful but uncomfortable direction of the conversation…

  20. Bill, literally in no time flat – I got the high speed internet over here – I found this article titled Dr. Phillip Zack is a Catholic.
    http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/PhilipZack.html

    It includes the name of the church he went to. But I bet that was his sneaky Mossad cover, right?

    Antiwar.com’s only connection to the CIA is that we publish articles by former analysts Ray McGovern and Chalmers Johnson, and former operative Philip Giraldi. Their names and former association with the CIA are there for all to see. Their work speaks for itself. But of course that’s what I would say if I was a secret agent pirate-radio gatekeeper too isn’t it…?

    As far as my discomfort, I am simply sick of you smearing people based on your pretended knowledge of their religion – all over my work. It is a patently stupid way of analyzing the world.

    And it really annoys me that you aren’t usually blatant enough in your bigotry to just go ahead and delete. It’s always some sorta thinly veiled sounding innuendo. Talk about bravery.

  21. Look up the research and read the book of Francis Boyle. He was a top microbiologist who’s talked at length about this case as well as the dozens of microbiologists whove been suicided since Bush took office. He has a few audio interviews available online. Google him…
    The scariest thing that he speaks of, is the tons of aerosol anthrax that has been made in quiet since these attacks. What do they plan to do with this anthrax? They plan to spray us!

  22. Read more about Dr. Zack and his jewish roots at aztlan.net.

  23. “Read more about Dr. Zack and his jewish roots at aztlan.net.”

    What a joke. Referring to a source which itself offers only assertions with no evidence is not the same as citing evidence.

    When I searched the site for Zack,

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS176US231&q=zack+site%3Awww.aztlan.net&btnG=Search

    I found these three “articles”:
    http://www.aztlan.net/zack.htm
    http://www.aztlan.net/bushcipro.htm
    http://www.aztlan.net/rowley.htm

    Just as in your comment, the author does not even attempt to prove his assertion. He simply “knows” it apparently.

    Now, if Zack was Jewish, which he is not, http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/Zack.jpg
    and even if he were a Zionist, which we have no way of knowing, that would still merely be interesting and would prove nothing.

    Why such lazy and dishonest accusations when there is a real crime and cover-up here? Why are you people so determined to muddy the water with all this garbage? It makes no sense. Unless…

    YOU are a secret disinformation gatekeeper sent to distract us to dead ends! Yep. That’s must be it. I can’t think of another explanation off the top of my head right this minute, so I’ll just settle on that. The Legendary Bill and cohorts are really Mossad agents of questionable lineage! Beware of them!

  24. Oh look Horton I found a site that says Trotsky and Bela Kuhn and Rosa Luxemburg were really Catholics too…Yeah, over here….Whatever, just believe whatever’s safer for you…That seems to be your m.o.

  25. Horton found Ed Lake psssh

    Not that it matters what Zack was, he still has a lot of explaining to do. But I do want to point out this:

    Listen being Catholic in no way prevents someone from being Pro-Israel. Ivins was a Catholic and he wrote in 2006

    “By blood and faith, Jews are God’s chosen, and have no need for ‘dialogue’ with any gentile.” Thats from a Catholic but so what MOST Zionists are Christians. He was in a circle full of Catholic Zionists. They were quite open about it. They formed anti-arab groups. Bruce also wrote;

    and “You can get on board or get left behind, because that Christian Nation Express is pulling out of the station!” he wrote after the election of Bush.

    He wrote the paper with this stuff. That is how important is was to him. Now I got Catholic relatives into Amway and all that cult stuff. Total Blackwater types kill for Jesus types. I can tell you this, Jews can’t hold a finger up number-wise to Christian Zionist or just Christian supremacist in general. They are scare people.

    We know Zack was part of a group harassing Arab Scientists. But all you guys are missing the boat here.

    So what if Zack stole Anthrax and got caught doing illegal research on it? Better to bitch about what his religion was like it matters. They were staunchly anti-Arab you dont have to be Jewish to have a monopoly on that. The Camel Club was a bunch of Bigots and they are Christian Zionsts. And a couple of them happened to be Jewish but so what. Zionism is a POLITICAL ideology that stems from several religions.

    Here is a telling question. Why hasn’t the FBI gone after Zack? Why did government insiders take drugs Before the attack? Why did Hoax letters follow Hatfill around? Obviously they needed a fall guy.

    It’s too much to explain just watch War by Deception when it comes out Sep 11th.
    It’s better than “All Roads”.

    Zack is a pawn. This Anthrax thing didn’t happen in a bubble. The Mossad planted the Anthrax came from Iraq Bull shit to the paper in the UK and the US and good old Judith Miller gets a Hoax letter. This was an intelligence operation not the work of a pissed off scientist. I predicted Bruce Ivins Death on June 30th just a few days before coming on this show which was censored but not by Scott.

    http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14210 check the date. I said “With Steven Hatfill winning his settlement the FBI is going to ned a new fall guy. The folks still at USAMRID should stay out of small planes and away from high windows.” “…Bruce Ivins and anyone else likely to be on hit list of William Patrick, had best not be going to have breakfast with their moms any time soon.”

    “Breakfast with their moms” means “suicided” it’s a reference to the DC Madam murder.

    Do I have ESP? No. I’ve just been all over this for 7 years. Not just me, many people. This anthrax story has been finished for a long time.

  26. Bill, you dumb ass. That link leads to a clipping from the local newspaper’s coverage of his wedding that talks about what church he goes to. You bring up irrelevancies in order to make it appear as though what I said was baseless and that there was no evidence on the page I linked to.

    But in fact, quite unlike when you assert things, there was.

    Why don’t you go hang out at some nazi site where your intellect and style will be enjoyed rather than routinely called out as baseless and stupid?

  27. Ry,

    First of all, you showed up late. The argument was whether The Legendary Bill was going to get away with his stupid assertions about how guilty this guy Zack was due to his supposed “Jewishness.”

    Second, what’s the evidence that Zack did anything? Other than that you would have had him investigated and he wasn’t? They say it looked like he could have taken some from the lab, but wasn’t that 9 or 10 years before the attack?

    Third, only because you bring it up. I really did try to make this clear – there are interviews that I do on the show that do not run on Antiwar.com all the time. The 9/11 theory stuff we talked about wasn’t good for anything but angering the kooks. And frankly, the Russia part – which we discussed running separately – perhaps due to time differences between us, was deemed too hard to follow or make much sense of. I’m sorry you took it bad, and you are right that it was not my decision. But it is one I can understand and wish that you could see was an act of editorial discretion, not censorship. It was about quality, not political correctness or anything else.

    I, for one, enjoyed it and look forward to talking with you again.

    For anyone interested, the archive is here:
    http://www.scotthortonshow.com/2008/07/03/ryan-dawson/

  28. Scott you’re right I showed up late. I don’t disagree with out about Zack if the question is just on if he was Jewish or not. I have seen both account that he was Jewish and that he was Christian. My thing is who cares? I personally put the anthrax blame on Hanan Serftay and Legum Yochai. It would be stupid of Zack to mail such a letter about Assad but apparently he or at least someone at the lab did because they knew everything about Assaad. But there was a lot of talk about a bi attack following up after 911 so maybe Zack being the bigot we know he was wrote a genuine letter of warning albeit filled with prejudice. The problem is and what makes him look like he is hooked in with this (Mossad op) is that the FBI given all the circumstantial evidence, possible prior knowledge and a history of stealing it and illegally working with it, should have not waited 3 years before they investigated the origin of the letter and they have not brought Zack in for questioning at all. So WHY?

    I’m not mad about the 911 stuff, I agree with the decision because it doesn’t do any good, it’s like an atheist giving a well detailed account on how Adam and Eve are fictional characters, it doesn’t matter what they say or how sound it is, people do what they want with it.

    As for the Russia stuff, well it may have been hard to follow because most Americans don’t know the names of Russian cities much less their banks or politicians. It’s a shame because we had gotten into Azerbaijan and the ACCU, and skipped over to Berezovsky and co, and the next step had there been time was to get into Georgia and what went down there. The only color revolution I said by name was the Rose revolution and that was because of what I thought (as did many others) looked like was coming. It happened and it’s all about expanding NATO. But explaining the Oligarchs’ scams was important too. People always try to point to lifting price controls as an argument against the Free Market, but that’s not what happened at all. It was a completely rigged and criminal market.

    Anyway I was late because United Air broke my cpu when I came over from Japan. I have like an hour film coming out about the anthrax. It’s free. The problem the FBI has had with all its fall guys as been placing them at all the multiple scenes of the crime. (assuming its not a team is one mistake already). But we know who was in all the places the anthrax and hoax anthrax was mailed from. Al Qaeda. And of course it along with the notes was made to look like their doing BUT then the anthrax (from the senate letters) gets traced back to US labs. So who had moles in the labs blaming Iraqis and then Hatfill (something the JDL tried to do in 1997) and who was in all the same locations as Al Qaeda and would benefit from saying Death to Israel and America??

    The Israelis. And I don’t mean just the Art Students protecting the MDMA ring. Drugs are black ops finance. I’m talking about the whole system which reaches right up into our own DOD and State department with multiple moles and spies. Not just APIAC’s crew either. They overlap but I am talking about Grossman, Perle, Feith, Woolsey, and I don’t have proof yet but probably Abrams as well.

    Remember Michael Gal (Israeli spy)? Do you know who bailed him out? Ophir Baer. Guess where he works. Yeah, Amdocs the same backdoor communications company that was shifting suspects around as soon as the FBI would try and move in on them. Serfaty seems to be the money man this “student” had over 100 thousand dollars in unexplained bank receipts just in the time of Dec 2000 to March 2001. He must have dished out the money in the Florida cell, then up in NJ Urban Moving Systems got a 500 thousand dollar loan form Uncle Sam. They lost their license in 2002. Omit Levinson (Suter) leaving the country may have had a hand in that.

    The intel saying Iraqis passed anthrax to Atta in Prague came first from the Israelis then to the London times and then over to the New York media. However the AEI and Weekly Standard had Iraq Al Qaeda and anthrax connections claims out on sep 13th two days after the attack. That whole AEi/PNAC group is a whose who list of super Zionist many of whom also wrote Israel policy papers saying the same junk. Then we catch the Israelis spying with moles out of those same offices.

    Who did 911? Al Qaeda (with assistance). How separate are they from the CIA and Mossad? Well it’s murky. We let it happen, hijacked it got two wars so far, looking for a third, got well you guys know…. But when you include the anthrax attack that was an inside job. I swear Osama was allowed to leave as well. We didn’t miss him, we gave him every chance to get out. But that’s a long story.

    MIC needs a boogyman.

    anyway movie is out Sep 11th. or 12th I’m kind of up i the air as to if I should put it out on the 11th or not.

    Scott see the post on Luke Ryland, and good interview.

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