Scott Horton Interviews Ken Menkhaus

Scott Horton, September 29, 2008

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Ken Menkhaus, Associate Professor of Political Science at Davidson College, discusses the crisis in Somalia [.pdf], 2.5 million people on the brink of starvation, the disarray in U.S. humanitarian, counter-terrorism and state building policy within Somalia, disproportionate response to a slight pretext and resulting widespread anti-Americanism where there was none before, Somaliland and the catch 22 of giving humanitarian aid.

MP3 here. (32:11)

Dr. Menkhaus specializes in the Horn of Africa, with a particular interest in Somalia. He has researched, written, and conducted policy work on such topics as humanitarian relief, peacekeeping, post-conflict development assistance, collapsed states, protracted conflict, and Islamic movements in the Horn of Africa. In 1993-94 he served as special political advisor in the U.N. operation in Somalia, and was visiting professor at the US Army Peacekeeping Institute in 1994-95. In 2002 he was awarded a USIP research grant to complete a book on protracted conflicts in the Horn of Africa.

28 Responses to “Ken Menkhaus”

  1. Mr. Menkhaus,

    Thank you for your unbiased explanation of the situation in Somaliland. However, I have to correct you on one point, Somaliland did not “secede” from Somalia. Somaliland withdrew from a voluntary union between the former British Somaliland Protectorate and Italian Somalia(south) in 1960. We didnt ask for Southern Somali permission in 1960 when Somaliland joined Somalia to form the Somali Republic so why should we ask them for permission to regain our sovereignty now after they tried to commit genocide against the people of Somaliland in the 1980s. Don`t listen to the scaremongering by southern somalis that if Somaliland is recognized it will destabilize Somaliland. In fact the opposite is true the longer Somaliland is not recognized the bigger the chances of the insecurity and piracy of south somalia spreading to Somaliland. We already host thousands of southern refugees in Somaliland. These refugees could be a source of instability for us if we are not recognized as a state and they registered as foreign refugees by the UN. So far the southern refugees in Somaliland are peaceful but recently several of them have been arrested for attempted piracy and other crimes. The time may come that we have to expel them if they cause too much trouble in Somaliland. Also the Islamist also plan to attack Somaliland if they win in Southern Somalia with or without recognition. Recognition will be good for the Somaliland economy and the regional economy.

  2. One more point, both the Transitional Federal Gov`t and the Islamists hate Somaliland and have plans to invade if they succeed in Mogadisho. Recognition would be a bulwark against any attempt by southern somalis to invade Somaliland. If the international community is not going recognize Somaliland then please by all means stop giving aid to Southern Somalis like the Transitional Federal Govt warlords who openly advocate invading Somaliland. A purely non-interventionist policy on the part of the international community would be a blessing for both Somaliland and Somalia. The relative success in stability, democratization, and state building in Somaliland is partly due to our commitment to non-intervention in the internal affairs of our neigbouring countries including Southern Somalia. In short leave the Somalis alone. We are more than capable of solving our own problems and building a vibrant democracy as has been shown by the example of the Republic of Somaliland.

  3. Ken has always written Eurocentric view on Somalia. He is one of those misled the so called “Western” powers their ill-fated policies on that country. Ken and his associates have yet to come to terms the reality of this country. There is no foreign power can rule over Somalia.

    Ask the British colonialists as well as FRANCE, Italy, Ethiopia etc. For over 70 years they were in Somali soils there was armed resistence till they were expelled out. Remember Sayid M Abdille Hassan. You even used nuclear weapons of the time “Jet fighters”.

    Now, Ethiopia was bribed to do the dirty job for the WHITE colonialists. They are having HELL and I promise you history will tell its readers very soon
    Ethiopia used to be in the horn of Africa before it has disintegrated into five mini states; Oromia, Ogadenia, Tigria, Gambela, and Afaria”.

  4. Abdul.

    Bravo brother for taking an honourable stand against the invasion and occupation of Somalia. But u have to remember it is fellow Somalis who give guys like Ken and other foreigners opportunity to meddle in Somali affairs by attending foreign conferences in Kenya, Ethiopia, Egypt etc… From the earliest days of 1991 some somalis have been calling for all kinds foreign military intervention by the UN, USA, and Arab League. Most of these Somalis come from the South Somalia especially the pirate infested northeastern region of Puntland. They include former prime minister Abdirizak Haji Hussein, current TFG leader Abdullahi Yusuf, Professor Said Samatar of Rutgers, Ali Mahdi, Omar Arteh, Jama Mohamed Ghalib. The last two are from my country Somaliland but are considered traitors by even their closest relatives. Southern Somalia could have been saved a lot suffering if only the leaders there practiced a strict non-interventionist policy of staying out of the internal affairs of neighbouring countries and most importantly not begging foreigners for so called “peacekeeping” troops. In the early 90s, Omar Arteh and Boutros Ghali tried convince the international community to send troops especially Egyption troops to crush the independence of Somaliland but the Somaliland leadership under SNM told them in no uncertain terms that any foreign troops were unwelcome on our soil and would be resisted as foreign invaders. There were huge demonstrations to this affect in all the cities of Somaliland. Because of this the Arteh and Boutros conspiracy was foiled and Arteh became a hated figure in Somaliland. Southern Somalia should have emulated this example instead of competing for foreign favours and attending those lousy 14 “reconciliation” conferences they could have had a traditional somali shir beleed under an acacia tree and would have brought way better results I guarantee. Brother Abdul, I know you hate Somaliland so I don`t expect or need your recognition by any means but for your own sakes and mine I am glad at least one southern somali has realized that begging foreigners to intervene in Somali affairs is a disaster for us all. Long live the Somali people! Ciid Mubarak adiga iyo reerkaagaba Mudane Cabdalla.

  5. Hi Scott,

    First, let me tell you that I became almost immediately a great fan of yours and your program. However, my regret at this time is that I just came across the show few weeks ago, instead of all these years that it was on the air. I liked almost all the people that you interviewed previously and those in these few weeks that I was around – (I guess) I have lots of catching up to do. :)

    Secondly, I was born in Somalia, but I lived in the States since 1999 – I have to admit that the extra majority of the people of this country are wonderful (not sure, if it is because of Anglo-Saxon mentality thing or something else). In addition, the US Constitution – I have my own reasons to believe that it is, by far, one of the best Constitutions in the world today.

    Now, back to the interview – as far as Ken Menkhaus’s opinions about the Horn of Africa concerned, I suppose that he has certainly some knowledge about it – nevertheless, it cannot be 100% correct. For example, when he says that Ethiopian army invaded Somalia, just because they were strong enough to that and they did not need any help from out side – that, it is just as cr*p as it gets.

    My fellow citizens and I know that Ethiopian army could not successfully invade and occupy even one inch of our country with out some foreign aerial/satellite surveillance, diplomatic, financial, intelligence and military support – contrary to what Mr. Menkhaus and co. wanted us to believe.

    Furthermore, when Ken says something such as Ethiopian leadership thinks that they cannot pack and leave with out an honorable exit – do not you agree that it is little too late for them to worry about that now? Should not the thugs who rule that country thought it thoroughly before they embarked this disastrous adventure? …I am just asking – that is all.

    Please, let me clarify another point here, (IMO) ethnicity and/or religion has nothing what so ever to do with what is going on in the horn – and every time that they are brought into the equation – we actually, go far away from the truth. Any time that people assume it is because of their ethnicity or their religion believes why some foreigners are interfering their national affairs – it is when they actually, with out knowing it, taking off the hook these very foreigners.

    These foreigners do not hate Somalis more than they hate Ethiopians or like Ethiopians more than they like Somalis; actually, they do not give fu*k about Somalis or Ethiopians, as long as they get what they wanted. However, in this particular case, the Somali double – triple type fool leaders/politicians (yes, we too have those idiots, and plenty of them) were not as fast as their Ethiopian counterparts were to sit with these very foreigners, and cut a deal – that is all. They were too busy to stab each other in the back – as most of African politicians do.

    However, this time around, was the idiot Ethiopian pm the one who thought that short-term gain is as good as long-term gain – by invading and occupying neighboring country. It is amazing that how these damn fools, super stupid – double – triple type fool African leaders keep missing a very simple point – that no matter who kills or who is killed, as it is – we both (in this case Somalis and Ethiopians) lose.

    They also keep missing that we need ASAP a change of course – because the one we were on, it is clear that, it is not working – at least not for our favor. Moreover, for their collective myopia is what the foreigners that I mention above take advantage to meddle our internal affairs.

    The foreign individuals that I mentioned above developed a plan, and then improved it, and then further improved it to a point where they not only profit from it when they succeed, but also they profit from it even when they fail – amazing is not it? These plans are so sophisticated to a degree in which if they go forwards with it they benefit from it, if they go backwards with it they still benefit from it, so to upwards and downwards as well.

    As far as Somalis being radically angry toward America concerned, it is the prime example of how the plan that I was talking about works – now, instead of that (Somalis’ anger) being bad – the individuals that I was talking about earlier would take this to the US government and present it as a threat to the American interest. Consequently request and get more funding and sh*t to further anger more people – the angrier the opponents get the better – because, you and I will agree that an angered opponent will lose his coolness and will be easily maneuverable. See – what is good, is good – but what is bad, could also become good – if one is creative enough.

    As far as Somaliland concerned, I for one, what ever it is worth, I will be happy for them and support what ever decision they make – it is unthinkable for me to do anything shorter than that. If there is, some place in whole the continent of Africa – where people live in peace – I am happy for it – let alone part of Somalia (err. Somaliland). If I do not do that – then I would not consider myself a good person.
    (…)

    Ps: I thank Chris Floyd, Eric Margolis, Justin Raimondo, you and the others for your extended coverage about Somalia – remember, for what it is worth, you guys gained one more Somali fan, and he appreciates all your efforts. Ciao! :)

  6. What a terrible life is being forced on the impoverished people of Somalia, and what a beautiful country it is. Same on the USA!

  7. First of all hats off to you brother Cayrow for your wise and balanced post. Salaan sare saxiib haddii soomaalidu sidaada wada ahaan lahayd waxaniba nagu muu dhici lahayn. Although I do agree there is extensive meddling by major Western and local powers in Somalia, they are not omnipotent. If somalis get their own house in order and practice a strict non-interventionist foreign policy vis-a-vis foreign powers there will be no opportunity for these powers to cause much trouble.Somaliland can be good example for Somalia regarding this. One of the main reasons we have been able to maintain stability is due to the fact we have boycotted the 14 conferences held in foreign capitals were all the conspiracies and meddling in internal Somali affars took place. Any Somalilander who attended those conferences could not legimately claim to represent Somaliland since it is against the law in Somaliland to attend such conferences. On their return to Somaliland such individuals were tried for treason. If southern somalia`s leaders practiced this and instead had a traditional shir beleed like we had in Somaliland, foreign agents would have much less opportunity to meddle. Islamic Courts were on the right track in this matter. However, some members of the Islamic courts were beholden to various Arab interests, some Saudi Arabia others Egypt. This turned Somalia into proxy between Arab and Ethiopian/Kenyan interest with the US manipulating both. As a poor underdeveloped peoples we need to extricate ourselves from such proxy competition by practicing non-interventionism even isolationism to save our people that means forgetting about the ogadenis, oromos, nfd, and all other irredentism. Basically keeping a low profile. There is a saying in Somali qunyar socoto qodaxi ma mudo or he who walks softly doesnt step on thorns. We need to rebuild our people socially, economically, and politically before we can engage in such geopolitics. This is not saying that we should not resist invasion and occupation not at all. But we must never give foreign powers the pretext to intervene by hosting ONLF, Oromos, Arab jihadists etc… Do u see Djibouti doing that? No because they no better we must learn from Djibouti. In Somaliland we have taken it a step further by refusing to cooperate even under pressure from Ethiopia and the West to support TFG. We have instead took a neutral role because neither the TFG nor the Islamic Courts recognize Somaliland and both have plans to invade us. That is why we have allowed southern refugees to stay in somaliland. Anyway I wish you and your family Eid Mubarak

  8. Don`t lose hope Swan. Have faith my friend.

  9. Dear Abdul,

    We Africans (Somalis in particular) will gain nothing from Ethiopia’s disintegration – and to entertain that thought it will only lead us to fall right into the foreign individuals’ trap. Ethiopian leaders has been historically colonialists’ boot licker, always betrayed their African brothers in every occasion, (wth) they even betrayed their own best interest in numerous occasions, and so forth – because, they were and (unfortunately) still are nothing else than a bunch of idiots. Now, do the rest of us really need to be idiots too? Of course, not.

    As far as the colonialists concerned, I will have to disagree with you about them losing the war – because, the battle is still on, it has been on for quite some time now, and it is much deadlier than ever – at least when it comes to African lives. All of this is because – we Africans – especially, our leaders and politicians refuse to use the best weapon that one could ever need – one’s own BRAIN. (WTH), these a**holes do not even know that they have a brain – and when (for some miracle) they do – they use it to destroy each other, and with it destroy what would have been our own best interests – be it, in both short-terms and in a long-terms.

    Now, let me tell you some more – when the colonialists came into Africa and immediately conquered vast land including the indigenous people – was not anything else, but thanks to the superiority of their weapons in comparison to the weapons that our great grandparents had back then. However, when the gap between the weapons they held and what we held shrieked, thanks to their own corrupted instincts – because, themselves were those who sold to us these weapons – then, they had nothing else to do, but to pack and leave. Therefore, please, do not think that we are somehow supermen or something. :)

    Now, the colonialists were morally, naturally corrupted – but, they were not stupid – not at least to the degree that we Africans keep proving to be. The colonialist figured it out that they could do the same thing with out bodily being there, and that in the future their great grandchildren would even do better than they did, if they played their cards correctly. This was a multi generational goal and not something, which came to them in an overnight – therefore, we Africans need to start ASAP to use our own brains (that is if we really have it) more often than we use our di*ks.

    Are we Africans fu**ed up right now? Yes, of course and a big time. Do we have a hope? Yes, but only if, we (Africans) grow into something, where it does not bother anymore if a group among ourselves manages to do better – for example, when in the interview Mr. Menkhaus, underlines by saying that Ethiopia is strong or cr*p like that, it should not bother us or see it as a threat or anything like that.

    Ethiopia is one of the poorest of the poor countries in the world. If the thugs who rule that country decide to spend lots of money in the military, (money, which btw they do not have), instead of other badly needed infrastructures is their problem – all we need to do is to hope and pray that one day, they too will change their minds and join us. Anything shorter than that is to fall into Mr. Menkhaus and associates’ trap.

    Now, let me make clear one more point here, I do not prove the filthy Ethiopian army’s occupation of Somalia, and I do believe that they will not leave unless they are chased-out by force. In addition, historically, resisting to occupation gave much higher survival rate than extreme obedience to occupying forces. Nevertheless, what I disapprove more than anything else is to make happy and very wealthy those foreigners who are responsible our misery in the first place.
    (…)

    Ps: Btw, jet engines were not yet in service when the colonialist air-bombarded Somalis.

  10. Dear Xiis,

    I agree with you that Somaliland could be a good example to the rest of us Somalis. However, I will go even further – (IMO) Somaliland’s withdrawal from greater Somalia turned out, what I personally consider to be – the third best thing that happened to us Somalis in our modern history. If nothing else, it proved that we (Somalis) could live together or should I say – some of us (Somalilanders) proved that they could live together with out many problems if they are left alone. Good job, brothers and sisters from Somaliland!

    The union between what was Somali under Italian colonial and Somali under British colonial was a voluntary one and rightly so. Therefore, we should not use force to maintain it – if the Somalilanders wanted to go their separate way – so be it. If we, from the south think that our brothers from the north should be united with us, then we better come-up lots of convincing ideas, and not use force to keep the union.

    On the other hand, and contrary to what you think about the ICU – the ICU was the second best thing that happened to us in our modern history – now, why would I say that?

    For the last half-century or so, the ICU was the only group, which managed to unite Somalis – not because of tribe affiliations, but under ideas – if nothing else, they proved that Somalis could agree on something without regard to tribe, and that (in my books, my friend) is a major accomplishment – considering how bad things been lately.

    Would have they succeeded if they were stayed in power long enough to take Somalis into the next stage – (next stage being) beyond tribalism and sh*t? It is hard to tell. Did they have the potential? Yes!
    (…)

    Ps: What is the very best thing that happened to us Somalis in our modern history? I will leave for you to figure it out. Ciao! :)

  11. Salaan sare saxiib Mcayrow,

    It is hard to find a somali these days with such forsight as yourself. However, I disagree with you on some points regarding the ICU. First let me say that the ICU were the best hope for peace and stability in Southern Somalia as they proved during their 6month rule of Mogadisho. However, there are some elements within the ICU that are not just counterproductive but stupid and dangerous. For example this Ogadeni fellow Hassan Turki used to be the commander of a notorious unit Siyad Barre`s army stationed in Cadaadle,Somaliland in 1988. Turki and his troops committed major atrocities against the innocent women and children of Somaliland. If that wasn`t enough for him, when the ICU took power from the warlords recently he made threats against Somaliland and even called us infidels for having relations with Ethiopia and deporting his fellow clansmen of the ONLF. There is no love loss between us and the Ogadenis but that is whole other story that most people don`t know about but if u wand i can tell u more about it. Also there have been some murders of foreign aid workers in Somaliland by elements linked to ICU/ Al Shabaab. Most importantly the ICU leaders even the soft spoken Sheikh Sharif openly oppose our sovereignty which leads us to distrust them as well. Anyway this is my position and many others in Somaliland including our govt.

  12. The best thing that happened to us in modern history is the written Somali Script the only thing positive about the Siyad Barre although credit should go to the somali academics from both north and south who created it not a two bit wannabe african mussolini like siyad.

  13. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/72350

  14. Dear Xiis,

    First, sorry for the late reply and thanks for all your compliments; they are very encouraging. Second, you too, have some excellent points. However, I agree with you that this Turki fellow could be a moron – but he is not the only one among us. Most likely, you and I would fall that category as well – let alone the other a**holes in Somali political arena.

    My point here, is finger pointing others, will only do more harm than good to the greater Somali cause. We (Somalis) been on this venue and seen where it took us – it is time to put it on a halt and start to respect each other. As an African wise man once said: “The best time to plant, a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time to plant a tree is now”. Therefore, we need to change now as much as possible the way we think and start to respect little more each other, (that is) if we wanted to cross to the next stage.

    Have you ever wondered why, if it is widely agreed that the human life itself begin in and around Africa – we Africans are not yet where the Europeans were centuries ago? IMO, it is because, the lack of respect among ourselves – that lack of respect is what leads us to fight against each other, which, then leads all of us to become poor. The poorer we get the more we fight – the more we fight the poorer we get, and so forth.

    The wisest thing to do is to stop fighting regardless who is right or who is wrong. That not only will help us to study and understand our mistakes – so in the future we will be better position to stop it from happening again – but will also stop making further wealthy the foreigners who were benefiting our misery. What these foreigners used until now to mentally and some cases physically enslave us, with out us knowing it, was the wealth they gained from our stupid inter-fighting. No matter what – we have to put that to a halt – and permanently.

    We Africans do not need weapons, regardless where it comes from and who brings it to us. We need ideas – and anyone among ourselves who has it – no matter if it is bad or good – we need to support – because, down the road, even if it is bad one, we can still further perfect it. Not having it at all or relying on westerns’ ideas, as we have seen, would be much costly for us and we cannot afford it anymore.

    As far as what was the best thing that happened to us Somalis in the modern history concerned, is not the Somali script, as some Somali conspiracy theorists would agree on to it handy-capping us to some extend.
    (…)

  15. Oops, I meant to say shrunk and not what ever I said in one of my above posts…. I am sorry! :)

  16. I agree with u on the most part that we should respect each other and stop fighting one another. Somaliland although not perfect has made great strides in that direction. However. why do u think the Somali script is a handicap? Would rather us being completely illiterate society?

  17. Hassan Turki is not just a “moron” but a war criminal with the blood of innocent Somaliland women and children on his hands and he happens to be one of the top leaders of ICU so why should we trust them?

  18. Dear Xiis,

    You asked if I rather us being illiterate or something – of course, no! Writing Somali script is one thing and being illiterate is something else. Somali script was not mature enough when Mr. Barre’s regime made it Somalia’s government official language. It only made easy to advance to important governmental positions the regime’s boot lickers – with out asking if they were qualified or not – and later on, it became the catalytic reason why Mr. Barre’s own tribe and associates mostly held these same positions.

    Now, I have nothing against Somali’s script per se – actually, it is something to be proud of it – nevertheless, I believe that the regime was overrating it, in order to hide all their other failures. This regime was killing Somalis from left to right – and some of its members were even bragging about that no one could rule Somalis unless he kills lots of them or same cr*p like that. For sure, these very actions by Barre’s regime do not show that it meant great deal for them if Somalis remained illiterate or not – as long as they stayed in the power.

    Furthermore, another good example of Somali’s script being not mature enough when Mr. Barre’s regime decided to go with it is India. Most part of Africa (including Somalia) and India were under the British colonial. When the colonialists left India, her leadership did not rush to change their then young Indian government’s official language to one of their national scripts – and, those guys had much older scripts than we do. Now, after over sixty years Indians are still benefiting from what most scholars call “the gift that keeps coming” – the English language.

    As I said before, colonialism was as immoral as anything could get – nevertheless, Mr. Barre’s regime threw away the only freaking possible good thing out of it by rushing to make the then not mature enough Somali’s script the official Somalia’s government language. Here, I hope that I made myself clear enough.

    As far as trusting the ICU concerned, well, we have to start to trust each other from somewhere – do not you agree? Why not with these guys – at least they stood, up against the filthy Ethiopian army – are not they? What would they do if they win – is hard to tell, but you and I could speculate as much as we wanted and so forth, but that would not change that much.

    Moreover, for the record, as I said it before – I do not mind, even a bit, Ethiopia existence – it is just, I do not want their filthy army occupying my ancestries’ neck-of-the woods – that is all. We can have commerce – by buying or selling to each other what we have – but not occupation, regardless which side of the border.

    As far as Mr. Turki concerned, again, we have to start from somewhere to forgive each other – we cannot as they say, to cherry-pick to whom or when we forgive. It is not only good, but it also means a lot to forgive when it is hard to forgive than when it is easy to do so – do not you agree, my dear brother?

    What happened between us was a civil war; we killed each other because of stupid tribe rivalry – and, instead of standing shoulder by shoulder to face life itself – we chose to try to wipeout each other. That was big freaking shame, nevertheless, if we all (especially our leaders) play our cards accurately – we could prevent it from happening again and consequently safe our children, grandchildren, and yes, our great grandchildren. However, not all of this will happen unless, as difficult as it might be, we do not forget yesterday and move on.
    (…)

  19. Oops, I misspelled again – I meant handicap and extent in my yesterday’s post. After nine years, I am still learning the damn thing! :)

  20. You made a good argument about the Somali script. I heard it from many other people before as well. You are right that Afweyne used it to consolidate his power. However, you cannot disregard the fact tha it brought literacy to many people who did not have access to colonial education in the past. As for India, u cannot compare us to a second largest nation in the world with one of oldest civilizations mankind has ever known. They already had several written languages when the Brits got there like urdu, gujarati, punjabi, bengali, tamil, and of course hindi. Sorry but I will not and cannot forgive a war criminal like Turki, Morgan, etc… They should killed or locked up period. other folks who worked for the regime can and should be forgiven for the sake of reconciliation. We did that in Somaliland during the early 90s and it worked quite well for us. That is why Rayaale could become President. However, contrary to current rumours, Rayaale did not kill anyone. In fact, the people of Berbera regard him as a hero because he saved many people from jail and death during the war of liberation when he was NSS. In Somaliland, we have a war crimes commission that documents these atrocities. So no I will never ever forgive a war criminal like Turki who still wants to kill me and my people.

  21. daawo waraysigan:

    http://www.hadhwanaag.com/newsdetail.jsp?selectid=13814

  22. Dear Xiis,

    I was not comparing India to Somalia or vice versa – but I was merely comparing just the actions. Moreover, India’s culture is just different and not better or worse than our culture is – and btw, it is up to us how well we promote and sell to the others our culture.

    What the westerns say about our culture is utterly wrong – because, there is no way that our great grandfathers or even our grandfathers did not do anything to fix it – if they did not fixed it – it only means that it was good as it is and there was no need to fix it. We (Somalis) need to remember that.

    Now, back to the stupid tribe rivalry thing, I believe that all our tribes (including yours and mine) are either all good or they all suck; I am putting my money on – they all suck and a big time. As I said before, as it is, we are all fucked-up – now, the question is – do we have any hope? Yes, but only if we accept each other as we are, forgive what happened yesterday, and tried to move on.

    As far as Morgan, Turki and those like them concerned, they are almost in every tribe – and, since, what happened between us was a civil war, we cannot go after only specific ones and let the others off the hook – that would be injustice, and would not do any good to those who lost their lives. However, if we go after all of them, then that would only mean the continuation of the civil war, which, then leads us to more loss of Somali lives.

    Look my dear brother, we no longer afford to waste our time on focusing what an individual did or did not in the course of our civil war – because, one way or the other we all participated to some extent in this mess. Instead, we need to concentrate our energies and time how to prevent it form happening again.

    On the other hand, I agree with you that we have plenty of people who committed as you said it “a war crime”. Nevertheless, we need to quit, once for all, militant mentalities and focus on how we could improve the lives of all Somalis wherever they are – and, the best way to do all of this is to think positively, brother.
    (…)

    Ps: Foreign advisers advised to MR. Barre to make Somali script the official government language and it was not something that came from him, as some people would like to us to believe.

  23. wrong again mcayrow, it was not civil war or tribal/clan war in 1980s in somaliland, it was deliberate attempt by the Somali state to annihilate the people of somaliland with our own tax-money. they used the full force of the state against us including planes, tanks, and artillery. it was an organized and well thought out genocide. this was straw that broke the camel`s back, it convinced somalilanders that we could never ever share a govt with southern somalia and we need to reclaim our lost sovereignty. by the way, it is very insulting the way belittle the atrocities by the somali govt as a little civil war among tribes. that is not true and u know it. so how about this u keep your criminals like morgan and turki just leave Somaliland alone. period. we have defeated the somali state in 1991 and do not need your help in avoiding another genocide in our country. our govt, army, and people will defend us from southern somalia if u guys ever attempt an attack on us again. I am not a militant but a believer in justice. But u seem to be an apologist for war criminals. In that case i think our discussion is over my friend. good luck with your against ethiopia just leave us out of it and please take your refugees back too. by the way u are wrong about the somali script it was written before Barre came to power in the 60s by Muuse Galaal a Somali Literary from Burao Somaliland.

  24. http://somaliland1991.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/somaliland-genocide-raids-1988/

    this is to jog your memory mcayrow… tribes dont have migs my friend

  25. for u this might be abstract but this is deadly serious for me because my own family was killed by turki`s unit in 1988. so don`t u ever ask me to forgive a killer like that.. if that is your somalism then count me out i dont anything to do with it. aniga iyo turki iyo faqashtiisa rasaas baa naga dhexeeysa nothing else

  26. Dear Xiis,

    First, sorry if I somehow or someway offended you, I swear to Allah that was not my intentions. Moreover, as I said before, I will be happy and support whatever decision comes from Somaliland – and, even though I know I could get some anger from some of my brothers/sisters from the south – nevertheless, I decided to do that (and I am proud of it) just to protect Somali Landers’ right to decide whatever they wanted.

    Furthermore, if Somali Landers settled-down their differences better than we southern Somalis did, I do not think it is a bad thing – actually, it is a blessing, and for whatever is worth – on behalf of southern Somalis, I will thank you for hosting our brothers/sisters after the filthy Ethiopian army’s invasion.

    OTOH, before such thing as Somaliland or Somalia south existed, we were all Somalis –and, there were days that we Somalis were united on one common goal – to kick the colonialists’ a** out of Somalia, our great grandparents and grandparents sacrificed their precious lives to achieve that. Please, let us not forget that and make their death in vain.

    Furthermore, the colonialists knew that they will be the ones who was going to have the last laugh at the end, even if our grandparents finally managed to kick their a**es in the twentieth century. The fictitious borders that they imposed on us before they left were specifically designed for this very purpose. Every time that we argue on, let alone when we take guns against each other to enforce these borders, (which, btw, were sketched on the sand at the beginning) its architects’ laugh on us from their graves – is that for what our grandparents really died? I do not think so!

    As far as us southern Somalis attacking Somaliland or Somaliland’s army defending the land concerned, for the record, I am against any type of violence regardless who is doing it, on whom he is doing it, and/or why he is doing it. I also think violence creates only more violence – which then creates more violence – a violence that only makes wealthier those who put us in these mess in the first place – our real enemies. In addition, I believe that being against wars is not enough at all – unless we first believe in and promote peace among us.

    As far as our discussion is being over concerned, it is fine with me – even though I still think that what was going on between you and I was something really good – and worthy of the efforts we put it in. Nevertheless, know this; if you change your mind, I will be more than happy to continue our discussion. If not, best wishes to you, bro!

    As far as Somali script concerned, I was referring only to MR. Barre’s action, and not the guy who came-up with it – but hey thanks; I learned something from you! 

  27. Mcayrow,

    You seem to have good intentions so I will give u the benefit of the doubt. However, u shouldnt make excuses for filthy war criminals like morgan and turki. Thats all.

  28. Yep!

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