Scott Horton Interviews Laurence M. Vance

Scott Horton, June 05, 2009

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Laurence M. Vance, author of Christianity and War and Other Essays Against the Warfare State, discusses the discouraging poll that correlates support for torture with practicing Christianity, the devotion to the military and the Republican Party that trumps religious faith, the bigotry that enables killing on a massive scale and why God doesn’t need U.S. help to protect Israel.

MP3 here. (22:37)

Laurence M. Vance writes from Pensacola, FL. He is the author of Christianity and War and Other Essays Against the Warfare State. His newest book is The Revolution that Wasn’t.

27 Responses to “Laurence M. Vance”

  1. Scott:

    There is one question I really wish you had put to Laurence M. Vance. (And I write this as a great admirer of both you and him — though, of late, I’ve begun to temper my admiration for Mr. Vance). Here’s the question: Is there any position the Christians could embrace beyond which he could could no longer attend their churches or continue to call himself a Christian? Though perhaps politically incorrect, this is no trivial issue. And his answer would have been enlightening, to say the least.

    Thanks for all your audio interviews,
    J. Garrison / NYC

  2. While I can’t speak for Dr. Vance, J, I would say that he would still have to call himself a Christian if he still believes in Jesus, the Word of God, etc. But I think if you’re a Protestant you could justify not going to Church.
    As a Christian, I am so incredibly glad that Dr. Vance has had the courage to stand up and attack the Christian Right. May God bless him and help him keep hope.

  3. To all you American’s and your Masters of the Godless Synagogue of Lucifer, “IF” there was a God “IT” would hate,first your Chosen of the Synagogue of Lucifer and then all of the vermin human race with WMD and the brain span of ant’s.Have a nice day if you can.

  4. In addition to not being Christians, they are also liars.

  5. Maahloom or ahkid ( for sure ) as we say in arabic..” We are the children of Abraham” the Pharisees said to Jeshua ( Jesus )..Our Lord responded, ” If you were Abraham’s children you would be doing the works of Abraham. But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I have heard from God; Abraham did not do this. You are doing the works of your father!……….You belong to your father the devil and you willignly carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer form the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie he speaks in character because he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me….Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God…”

  6. The Catholic Church has a Just War Doctrine crafted by a saint ( St. Thomas Aquinas ) and neither the Afghan or Iraq wars qualified..And in both cases the Church was right..The US was attacked by Al-quaeda ( with a little help ) it wasn’t attacked by the Taliban..Killing 20-30,000 innocent Afghans by the end of ’01 was obscene, they did nothing to harm the US….By the official account the attackers blew up right there on your TV screens and Bin Laden got away..( The war was about pipelines, surrounding Iran and profitting off the Opium trade ).
    And Iraq? An unnecessary for which mere words fail to convey the tragedy…

  7. ” An unnecessary farce for which mere words…..”

  8. American Christians who believe the Bible tells them to protect Israel are the victims of a massive Zionist deception.

    Cyrus Scofield, a convicted forger, was funded by Samuel Untermeyer, a Wall Street lawyer and one of the architects of the Federal Reserve, to write the unbiblical Zionist notes to the Bible which became known as the Scofield Reference Bible.

    Check out some genuine Christian scholars like Stephen Sizer, Donald Wagner and Charles Carlson for an excellent refutation of Christian Zionism.

    The documentary, “Onward, Christian Zionists,” is a great place to start learning about this dangerous belief system.

  9. Christians who believe that the Bible tells them to protect Israel are the victims of a massive Zionist deception.

    Cyrus Scofield, a convicted forger, was funded by Samuel Untermeyer, a Wall Street lawyer and one of the architects of the Federal Reserve, to add the unbiblical Zionist notes to the Bible which became known as the Scofield Reference Bible.

    There are a number of Christian scholars such as Stephen Sizer, Donald Wagner and Charles Colson who refute the bad theology of dispensationalism or Christian Zionism.

    The documentary, "Onward, Christian Zionists," is a great place to start learning about this very dangerous belief system.

  10. Here's a vote to have Mr. Vance on the program more often. He represents a view not well known that a growing number of Christians share (disgust with the US Right while maintaining a belief in Scripture).

  11. Christians who believe that the Bible tells them to support Israel are the victims of a massive Zionist deception.

    Samuel Untermeyer, a Wall Street lawyer and one of the architects of the Federal Reserve, funded Cyrus Scofield, a convicted forger, to add unbiblical Zionist notes to the Bible, which came to be known as the Scofield Reference Bible.

    Many fine Christian researchers such as Stephen Sizer, Donald Wagner and Charles Colson have shown dispensationalism, or Christian Zionism as it's commonly known, to be bad theology.

    The short documentary, "Onward, Christian Zionists," is a good place to start learning how this anti-Christian belief system also makes for very dangerous politics.

  12. Is Antiwar censoring my comments about the origins of Christian Zionism?

  13. I agree with Jonathan. I would love to hear Dr. Vance talk about how Christians should treat Romans 13 in regards to the actions of our government. So often I hear my fellow Christian friends say how it is our godly duty to obey the government, because good Christians are subject to the “higher powers.”

  14. I don't see where Jesus–if he ever really existed, that is–was such a peace lover. Who was it who said that he didn't come to bring peace but that he came to bring the sword?

    Then this fine, upstanding example of patience and humility went on to curse a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season. Most people would call such behavior a temper tantrum.

    I also don't see where these Christians can justify self-defense, either. Who was it that said don't resist an evil person but if someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek so it can be struck, too?

    It seems to me that Christians weren't persecuted enough back in ancient times because they're still around today. A little bit of that old Roman-style persecution is just the thing that would make the world a better place, particularly if extended to all religious freaks.

  15. Christians who believe the Bible tells them to support Israel are the victims of a massive Zionist deception.

    Look up the origins of the unbiblical pro-Zionist Scofield Reference Bible, before its lies lead us all into a catastrophic World War.

  16. Interesting man, Vance. He's a Christian who questions how "Christians" who warmonger, who blindly follow the State, can be Christian.

    Vance is right that America causes its own troubles. Our invasions, our attacks, our threats against other nations inevitably lead to "blowback." And central to this, of course, is America's criminally slavish support for Israel.

  17. Memo- These biblical references you bring up should not be taken literally. Each one is a metaphor for the struggles we face on a spiritual level. You are making the same mistake that Evangelicals make when they use a literalist interpretation to justify their foolish ideas. Jesus was not and is not a political leader.

  18. "Onward, Christian Zionists" is a very good short documentary about the perils of this Zionist-funded deception of Christians: http://www.alternatefocus.org/

  19. Check out Sister Diana Ortiz' speech on today's program on Law and Disorder radio.
    http://lawanddisorder.org/ She speaks of the reality of torture from the point of view of a human being that was tortured and what it is like to live in the world after having been tortured. This story is not reported in our media, and only rarely in the alternative media because it is so grotesque and devastating to listen to. It needs to be told again and again, especially in our churches. Thank you for this show Scott.

  20. In a sense, on a spiritual level perhaps, Jesus is a political leader. But, yes, Memo's questions are quite understandable. Christianity can be confusing.

  21. An interesting interview on an old issue that has not been resolved – Christianity and War.

  22. Al Queda did not do 911. Zionists did.

  23. Mr. Vance clearly cherry picks his scriptures.

  24. BTW, as a former Christian, I saw that I, as a liberal was cherry picking the Bible just as the conservative & fundamentalist was (because the Bible was written by many different men with many different world views).

  25. As a former Catholic (now agnostic), I was taught that if you were not Catholic (or Christian), that your faith was wrong and therefore you would either have to go to purgatory or to hell. I think this type of mentality might make it easier for many Christians to see anyone else as less than human.

  26. Decided to order Vance's book from Amazon to find out more on this issue and where the man behind the pen is coming from.

  27. Very good interview, I've listened to it three times now. I live in Mississippi and am not a conservative , nor do I attend the hegemonic religion here, which is the Southern Baptist Convention. My church is very small and is pacifist, does not participate in politics, and seeks to follow the Golden Rule in respect to others.

    In regards to the question about 'torturing people now since they'll be tortured in Hell forever' — my answer is that Hell (immortal souls suffering an eternity in flames) is a lie. Eternal torture was introduced by the Catholic Church from Paganism. Now , thanks to JP2, they have largely 'softened' hell, and the Protestant Fundies/Evangelicals are the fiercest proponents of that blasphemous doctrine.

    The wages of sin is indeed death, not life in torment.

    Other than that, great interview :^)

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