Scott Horton Interviews Ray McGovern

Scott Horton, January 04, 2011

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Ray McGovern, former senior analyst at the CIA, discusses the likely CIA involvement in the 2009 Jundallah suicide bombing that killed several Revolutionary Guards officers and disrupted promising negotiations on an Iranian LEU fuel-swap deal; how the (predictable) Iranian backtracking after the terrorist attack gave the US a pretext to end talks and push for further sanctions; why we should expect whistleblowers to leak contradictory information if the 2010 Iran NIE reverses the previous estimate and provides justification for a war with Iran; how US diplomacy and talk of giving sanctions “time to work” and are just pretenses that lead to the endgame (desired by Israel) of regime change; why Israel – for the benefit of all parties – must negotiate a settlement for a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders; the connection between the 2004 Blackwater massacre in Fallujah and Israel’s assassination of Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin; and why nobody believes Obama, if given a sudden ultimatum from Netanyahu, will have the fortitude to forbid an Israeli airstrike on Iran.

MP3 here. (41:21)

Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years, from the John F. Kennedy administration to that of George H. W. Bush. His articles appear on Consortium News and Antiwar.com.

16 Responses to “Ray McGovern”

  1. I wonder if Ray McGovern can possibly explain what function the CIA serves. Why he joined it. How can he explain how he could work for them for so many years given his current attitudes toward them.

    The CIA is the dumbest organization on Earth made up of rural people who embark on a indulgent, silly life altering journey of imagined self importance with the CIA. It doesn't matter whether they are analysts or secret, undercover, guys and gals in the field.

    The history of the CIA speaks for itself. Counter productive is too good a word to use for their efforts. It's simple stupidity, and defies any common sense. Any ordinary who has any confidence in their perceptions can see that.

    Does it take 27 years to realize this?

    Ray McGovern speaks out against the CIA today. And describes here how undercover operations against Iran were counter productive, or what I would call violentally stupid and murderous.

    The mystique of the CIA should be exposed by Ray McGovern rather than the picking apart of their individual operations.

    Describing Bush senior as congenial and having good acting ability doesn't give me much confidence in Ray McGovern.

    The whole idea of having "insight" as a result of 27 years of work with the CIA seems absurd. There can be no separation between operations and anaylsis. It doesn't take 27 years to understand that. It might take one week for a slow person.

    Humility, and the ability to confront oneself, to see into oneself with the ability to deliver a kind of cold anaylsis of oneself would be much more beneficial from Ray McGovern.

    Confession is better. Attacking the mystique of the CIA, it culture and it's popular image as an organization that "knows secret things" is much more to the point and better for everyone.

    The CIA is made up of dumb people from rural backgrounds who enter into either the operations or analysis side with all kinds of misconceptions about how "dangerous" the world is.

    In reality, the world is not really dangerous. It is made dangerous by the CIA. The total lack of understanding by Americans about their place in the world and what a "peasant" is plays into the mystique of the CIA. Peasants are generally intelligent people who do not know how to read or write.
    The CIA is made up of stupid people who can read and write.

    Intelligence is doing things that are beneficial to your being and your species being. That's all there is to it. It doesn't have to have anything to do with education. Intelligent beings survive. Stupid ones have all kinds of problems in terms of survival.

    I would like to hear Ray McGovern talk about his own stupidity. And that's not an attack on Ray McGovern. It's a hope that by doing that, we will come to understand.

    Confession can be an act of Intelligence.

  2. We should all be grateful to Mr Mc Govern for his time and effort to tell us how it really is. On the plane from Bogotá to Paris an American sat next to me. He said that it´s necessary to kill a lot of people. I told him: "Bloody, crazy Pentagon". Depleted Uranium in Fallujah, the raping of boys in Iraq, etc. They are not only crazy but plain EVIL.

  3. Regarding the commentary of the first poster, for many of us, Mr. McGovern represents a well-informed and articulate voice emanating from that great intellectual wasteland…the foreign policy practices with their implementing mavens of the U.S. Government.

    Bravo to Mr. McGovern.

  4. please post the transcript. few people have time to listen to a 40 minute recording.

  5. Thank G-d for Ray McGovern and his love and concern for America.. The ["Bloody, crazy Pentagon". Depleted Uranium in Fallujah, the raping of boys in Iraq, etc.....they are not only crazy but plain EVIL."] face of the oppressors and occupiers contorted with hate do their dis-service to America and American values by destroying the America the founders gave to us….

    Ray's words are the sermon on the mount of our time that all believers in America need to hear….. !!

  6. I'm happy every time the CIA gets exposed for what it is: The acting US Government! It constantly does evil and then gets caught with its hand in the worlds cookie jars only to get off by some farcical notion that it's "incompetent". An over sized, but evil, Chris Farley. It's not stupid at all folks. It plays dumb but is as crafty and underhanded now as the day it was born. It needs to be dismantled brick by brick, everyone working there laid off, and at its present site the soil plowed under with salt so nothing can ever grow there again and serve as a reminder of what it was.

  7. I tend to agree with the three page quote except all the stuff about “rural” people. I think the military is comprised of mostly “rural” folk, whereas the CIA is comprised of a pseudo-intellectual force handpicked from the wealthiest families in America.
    But yes, 27 years is 27 years, that’s a long time to hold such a grudge against an employer. I’m sure that Ray’s yearly pension, thanks to the rest of us, is more than I’ve made in the past five years, something we shouldn’t forget. Ray was and will be employed through pensions and benefits for the rest of his life by the CIA and United States government, ahem, the rest of us productive stiffs. If Ray was such a saint and in such opposition to the American government and its war machine surely he would pass on these benefits which, if anyone is entitled to such, surely a CIA agent isn’t. But really, why did he stick around for 27 years if not to cash in like the rest of the D.C. leeches.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Ray McGovern is still employed by the CIA. This is something not uncommon these days.

  8. It is stupid. And you need to understand what stupidity is. It is simply acting in a way that is not beneficial. I think all of us act stupidly. But not ALL THE TIME. You will die if you do.

    The CIA is very destructive to America, to it's people and what culture there is.

    They are really not crafty. They seem crafty to people who aren't familiar with them. They run the same plays over and over. Over time an organization like the CIA learns how to assassinate people, bribe foreign leaders and union workers. This isn't rocket science. It's not really sophisticated.

    Americans are influenced by MOVIES about secret agents and agencies and that's the essence of the American view of the CIA.

    To expose it for how utterly dumb it is and just who the people are who are in it, where they come from, an analysis of their backgrounds would reveal, I think, that working for the CIA is something that appeals to rural people who are by their nature, sneaky, tattletales, subversive, underhanded, liars, phoney, narcissistic, venal, mean, cruel and very cowardly.

    They are often attached to some religion at a fundamentalist level. There are, I've been told a lot of Mormons in the CIA.

    Other adjectives to describe the CIA make up would be primitive, corny, nerdy.

    They are definitely not STREET SMART, but they imagine and the public imagines they are. You can't often develop street smarts as an adult very well. It has to happen in a natural way from childhood.

    They are not perceptive people.

    The mystique of the CIA should and can be exposed by someone like Ray McGovern. He stood up once, I remember and confronted, I think it was Donald Rumsfeld.

    The problem here is that to separate the analysts from the operations is simply a rationalization. They are part of the same organization and both "sides" of the organization know what the other does. If you are aware of what the operations side is doing, how can you continue working for them for 27 years. Certainly not in the hope of "changing" anything. I don't want to hear that.

    The CIA is very much like the German Gestapo. It's the same type of organization. Look (Feel) at your emotional response when you hear the word Gestapo. Now do the same feel your response to CIA. Most likely you feel revulsion at hearing the word Gestapo. And perhaps positive or negative or "mixed" feeling about the CIA.

    Saying you worked on one side of the CIA, the analysts side is not much different than saying you worked for the Gestapo on the analysts side.

    Which is why Ray McGovern might well further examine, if he hasn't already his participation with the CIA. It doesn't sound like he has though. Because he trumpets those 27 years quite a bit.

    Confronting oneself is unpleasant. But I don't think Ray McGovern is a coward. He has the capacity to do that. It would be good for him and good for all of us.

  9. Why do you think only "boys" were raped?

    I believe many of the house searches by American troops were done to get at the daughters and perhaps wives of the residents.

    On U tube an Iraqi father complains of this.

  10. To see such a powerful country as USA under the boot of a country as Israel. So sad.

  11. "The CIA is made up of stupid people who can read and write." You are Stu Piddy. Maybe Imbi Cility. How about Dumb Ass.

  12. Well, I think the CIA record speaks for itself. It doesn't do ANYBODY any good.

  13. "Well, I think the CIA record speaks for itself. It doesn't do ANYBODY any good."

    I'm sure there is a lot of people who's interests the CIA served VERY well who would disagree with that.

  14. Yes, it's a Goddamn travesty that the U.S. Government has surrendered its "Middle East policy" to Israel. But then, that's just another reason why our viability as a nation is doubtful, isn't it?

  15. Well, Stu, you make some good points.

    Does America–does any country–need an intelligence service? Hell, yes. Knowing about other countries, finding out what other countries are up to–this is perfectly legitimate. Here's the thing, though: An intelligence service has to confine itself to intelligence gathering, and nothing else. The criminal, rogue activities our CIA is known for must not be a part of that.

  16. Its great to know Mr McGovern liked having bagels with George Bush on Sundays (he loved every minute of it). I think that says it all. This guy is supposed to be a patriot praising Bush the mass murdering crypto or mason. If I had doughnuts at the Bush residence Id do a full intestinal cleanse even if it was 20 years later. It tells us all we have nobody and I mean nobody in the government or that was in government that will stick their necks out for America. They would rather have our 18 year olds go put themselves in harms way rather than tell the truth. Absolutely gutless!

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