Scott Horton Interviews Will Grigg

Scott Horton, October 27, 2011

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Will Grigg, blogger and author of Liberty in Eclipse, discusses his article “‘Rising’ to Empire, Falling from Grace;” why the “United State” of America is indeed an empire and has the Founding Fathers turning in their graves; why America’s elite are little different than the Soviet Union’s nomenklatura; the strengths and shortcomings of the Occupy Wall Street and Tea Party movements, and how their minor differences keep them divided and conquered; how Oakland police – disinterested in property or violent crimes – found time to nearly kill IVAW member and Occupy Oakland protester Scott Olsen; and redefining political centrism as something resembling libertarianism, rather than the radicalism of John McCain and Joe Lieberman.

MP3 here. (20:11)

Will Grigg writes the blog Pro Libertate and is the author of Liberty in Eclipse.

41 Responses to “Will Grigg”

  1. TRUTH IS

    Our goal being to enable democracy to accomplish more then just allow the 51% most aggressive and wealthy to hoard all the wealth, the key issue be: Why is human nature greedy and how do we overcome it?

    GREED: “All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness (wealth).”

    Those the most happy being those the most wealthy, can those who feel they deserve to live ever be anything more then greedy? No, for what a man feels he deserves, this is his highest priority, his high watermark in life to achieve and it controls every aspect of his mind, character and personality.

    For the legal right to live has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that a majority are ingrate toward nature, thinking they deserve more then life and all kinds of free something for nothing from nature.

    For if we deserve to live, then we must deserve the wealth needed to eat and live. Then we must deserve to “Be All You Can Be,” to earn all we can earn, own all we can own and to be a dictator over all who are on land that we own.

    Truth is, this day of life is more then any man deserves, as such a conviction will make him feel guilty if ever he fails to give all he can give. As such a conviction will give him a burning desire to walk in the light and to know the right.

  2. As a Libertian Catholic I have always been gratified by the libertarian implications of the Golden Rule and the concept of free will.

  3. Where is he getting his info about what OWS understands & doesn't understand. Has he talked to any of them. I call baloney on Grigg.

  4. Put differently, Grigg reminds me of what O supporters did when he was campaigning. They wrote their own programs and prejudices onto O. So Grigg imposes his priors & program on the OWS.

  5. OWS is a hetergenous group and like the Tea Party or any other large spontaneous protest movement many of its participants are afflicted with cognitive disonance. Do many of those on the streets have axe to grind or some ideological agenda? No doubt they do, but many others correctly recognize that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Before you dismiss OWS as bunch poorly groomed malcontents in search of another handout, you should take notice of well-heeled corporatist-fascist ensconced in power in Washington and Wall Street.

  6. I think OWS should protest the government. That's the force making decisions (who to bail out, who to invade). The banks have to respond to the market and the government. Who does the government respond to?

    If you look inside any big bank president, I think you'll see more fear than gloating.

  7. IMO, big banks ARE the government. But OWS is starting to protest the government – holding pickets and protests at congresspeople's offices and things like that. If you want to move OWS, come out and join us. It's extremely open.

  8. It's highly unfair and misleading to claim that OWS isn't protesting against the government-corporate axis. In fact that is one of their main complaints.

  9. Two more cents on the unfair characterization of OWS. I would say the more active someone is with any Occupation, the more they understand that it's the merger between corporations and government that is the problem. In my view, it's the Tea Partiers that deserve blame for not having stepped up to support OWS.

    Separately, what has Ron Paul said about OWS?

  10. Love you both Scott and Will. Thanks for your service gentlemen.

  11. if they are protesting against the govt then they are doing a poor job of it. after all, they are "Occupying Wall Street". not the steps of the capitol, and not 2600 Pennsylvania avenue. the fact that they are NOT protesting in these places is prima facie evidence that they do not know who or what is at the root of the problem! it also demonstrates what they are protesting.

    and they should also protest in front of the fed.

  12. You obviously aren't paying attention.

  13. When you are protesting an octopus , which tentacle is the right one to stand on first ?

  14. ROOT CAUSE

    High Society keeps 80% of wealth and passes 20% down to the Country Club class, who pass 10% of wealth down to the Educated Middle-class, who lock in poverty the Uneducated Laboring class.

    For no one in government compels the investor class, management class or small business class, including the libertarian class — to pay us high school dropouts a starvation wage.

    And so, as the ‘OWS movement is all of the Educated Middle-class, as the homeless live in the parks together with the ‘OWS protesters, as guilt drives the educated protesters to feed and cloth the uneducated protesters, never in the history of our brutal imperial Empire has there been such a golden opportunity for something other then a rich man’s dictatorship protected by a rich man’s Constitution.

  15. CORPORATE MEDIA — BIG BUSINESS THE TAIL with GOVERNMENT THE HEAD

    All of mainstream media owned by the corporate rich, and all such propaganda telling us that politicians are not paid actors but free agents never beholden to the rich.

    Comes now light to force such darkness to give way, just follow the money train. Actually the promise train, for first a politician must promise to vote for a rich man’s bill, then he campaigns for election promising to defeat such a bill, then after he is elected and after he votes for the bill, then the rich keep their promise.

    And that is why we endure the misery of a rich man’s dictatorship, for while politicians must trust the rich to keep their promise of money, we must trust that politicians will do right with our money.

  16. If you bring seven friends with you, the problem doesn't arise.

  17. There's no magic bullet for this – it's both the govt AND and the big central banks AND the Fed.
    In a sense, the large global banks (and the IMF) doing transnational operations are a government unto themselves.
    To say it's ONLY the US govt. shows a misunderstanding of how global finance works. Most of them have no idea how this stuff works (it's complicated), and they're not the only ones calling the shots.
    One would not have the power it has without the other, and vice versa, I think.

  18. Always appreciate Mr. Grigg, he's the epitome of clear thinking

  19. WERE THE 49%

    1% High Society
    10% Country Club class
    40% Educated Middle-class
    49% Uneducated Laboring class

    Virtually no one in a mansion or who belongs to a Country Club is looking for work, and those of the Educated Middle-class are all employed except about 1% who lack a marketable job skill do to our bankrupt economy.

    So, the 49% of America without education beyond high school, my slow and careful thinking Laboring Class, this is the class of people the ‘OWS movement should be inviting into their group and in their meetings address the wants and needs of we who hard labor generate all of society’s wealth.

    Problem is, most all of the ‘OWS protesters are of the low end of the Educated Middle-class and hardly a one has ever invited one of my laboring class over for a home cooked meal. And if you ask them who are the Laboring Class, why they would point to the homeless in the park and say, “They are the poor laboring class, here we give them food and warm clothing, and we are protesting so that the poor laboring class can have Medicare.

  20. WERE THE 49%

    Unkindest cut of all, saying that we who hard manual labor need charity healthcare from government, when all we need is a living wage from business.

    So, reflect on what High Society is doing to our society, they way they trickle down 20% of the wealth and by the time it reaches my laboring class nothing is left but a starvation wage.

    And so, over half of society loves things just the way they are, surely and to improve things for the better, a royal battle will we have with the 51% most aggressive and wealthy, all those with great jobs and terrific homes. And unless we can win them over by friendly conversation or a bad economy puts a forth of them out of work, a gun toting rebellion is suicidal out of the question.

  21. sir,

    i was paying attention. it is you who are missing it. go and view Peter Schiff's interviews with the OWS folks. he went down there and spoke to them. nothing coherent came out of the group. God bless them for what they are doing, but IT IS THE CLASSIC CASE OF THE BULL AND THE MATADOR!!! they are aiming at the cape!!! wall street is the cape, the fed, congress, and the white house are the matador. they are taking out their frustrations on the cape and will eventually get a sword in their neck.

    washington and the fed control fiscal policy, not wall street. it doen not matter what control wall street exercises over washington. THE WHITE HOUSE, CONGRESS, AND THE FED WRITE FISCAL POLICY. they also enforce it. these bodies are sending the money out, and remember…the money that goes out to wall street pales in comparison to what goes out to medicare, medicaid, foreign aid, SS, and every other unconstitutional giveaway.

    i like how walter williams put it. there are actors and actresses, and perhaps a few athletes, who make WAY more than these CEOs, so why don't they go after that part of the 1%? Oprah makes over $200 million a year. got an answer?

    and to rob, you hit the nail on the head.

    "most of them have no idea how this stuff works."

    so what do they do? they attack the cape.

  22. Timy, Timy..
    Libertarian Catholic? Now that is strange combination. How do you that? Cognitive disonance? Free will of whom bro god’s or pope’s??? Have a chat with Webster Tarpley ;)
    G’zez

  23. I hope Scott keeps doing interviews about the issues of how to organize and fight back – talking about OWS, TP, and other lines of resistance. The realignment he has been promoting for years will not come about easily. There has to be a lot of talking with each other to learn and plan. People coming in saying "We know the answers. You guys just have to listen to us," will not help. We have to be open.
    Hope everyone starts coming out to an Occupation near them.

  24. http://my.firedoglake.com/jest/2011/10/29/ows-sur

    F?or future ref, it's mam.

  25. Also, if you'd like to know more about the movement than just one interview, you'll find wall-to-wall coverage here. http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/

  26. The symbiosis of government and bank power Griggs sophistically mentions has had as its most salient result the DEREGULATION of banking (e.g. Glass Steagall) and the systemic abdication of government responsibility.
    http://michael-hudson.com/2011/04/greenspan-retur

    Sad to say, Austrian School show themselves fellow travelers of Chicago School.

  27. OAKLAND INSIGHT

    What the mayor of Oakland is trying to tell us is that she was totally unaware when she took off for Washington, that men from Washington had been in town for over a week and had organized a paramilitary strike force of legalized killers from 18 communities, all to take down a protest they out-numbered 5 to 1.

    So, because the mayor says she knew nothing and said nothing to the police but, “Do it at a time that is safe for everyone,” such words spoken by her, does it free of all responsibility the person of her?

    Well, that depends entirely upon what the voting majority decide to do, and as their legalized killers exercise brutal imperialism the worst nationwide, surely the mayor is a mindless robot fulfilling the will of the voting majority.

    For the only ones who show up at the polls are those who have some skin in the game, some wealth that politicians need to expand and protect, namely the 51% most aggressive and wealthy who own all the wealth in our imperial Empire USA.

  28. And those well – heeled corporate fascists expect the middle class, whose wages they've forced flat, to bail out their financial miscalculations!

  29. I have thought about this interview for a few days. I appreciate the stunningly articulate Will Grigg. And libertarians ARE consistently good on war. But government, heinous as it is, is just not the central institution in this web. There's a well-debunked myth called the Tragedy of the Commons that developed out of a desire of the upper classes to privatize and profit. The propaganda complained that the unwashed masses would gobble up all resources, and thus for their own good needed to be shut out, uprooted, and go labor in a factory. In fact, this myth of ownership being sacrosanct and salubrious is delusional. Look at what devastation is wrought by oil companies in Ecuador for example, or by BP in the gulf, or by Halburton in New Orleans, or by Goldman Sachs to the economy or by RW Grace in Montana and Peru–I could go on. OWS is right to be against corporate persons because that is the institution par excellence for turning trees and mountains into capital, which is a symbol of power. The ravaging of every facet and corner of the globe by the giants of capital is our modern day tragedy of the commons. Shock and awe, while not a good short-term investment, nips projects in self determination of people in the bud, and a vision of the world run by a landed elite evolved into a corporate elite can't grow and grow and grow if people come together and do for themselves. I don't think y'all get this.

  30. ANGEL IN DARKNESS

    AngelsLiberty, “The land owning elite that evolved into a corporate elite, they could not grow and grow and grow, if people come together and do for themselves. I don’t think y’all get this.”

    LAND OWNING ELITE: the 51% highest achievers with great jobs who own the land around their terrific homes.

    CORPORATE ELITE: the 51% most aggressive and wealthy who manage, supervise, small business support, police terrorize, military imperial brutalize and mainstream media smokescreen — for the corporate world.

    Occupy Wall Street movement: the other 49%.

  31. Incorrect. The only Austrian in the congress, Dr. Ron Paul, opposed the repeal of Glass-Steagall. http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/23

    Why? Because it's the regulations that allow the banks to create new credit out of nothing for making bad loans with. As long as those regulations are in place, the last thing an Austrian would want to do would be repeal the last caps on how much new money they can create and whose money they can bet with.

    And further, that article about Alan Greenspan is ridiculous. He was the government bureaucrat *in charge* of *allowing fraud.* He failed, not freedom.

    Then when he says the theory of free markets is that businesses won't make bad decisions due to internal pressures to be smart and honest, I could swear he must be reading from my Sociology 101 text book from junior college, because not even a Chicago School conservative national socialist posing as a capitalist would ever say something so stupid.

    As long as there is a central bank backstopping fraudulent fractional reserve banking, we will have destructive boom-bust cycles and endless numbers of people blaming everyone and everything but the Open Market Committee and their police power for the crises they sow.

  32. Let's see here from your link

    Generally speaking, which of the following political parties do you identify with most closely? (check one)
    Democratic…………………………………25
    Socialist Party………………………………11
    Green Party…………………………………11
    So 47% Identify themselves as "Leftists"

    17. When it comes to politics, do you usually think of yourself as (check one):
    Extremely liberal………………………………………………….39
    Liberal…………………………………………………………….33
    Thats 72%

    Yeah, OWS sounds like a broad, diverse movement…..

    Sounds like Grigg's assessments are right on. Consider also that every "demand" we hear from these people is calling for MORE government to fix problems that are caused by too much government to begin with and more "free" stuff for the protestors. Hardly a prescription for "change" except for the worst. As a libertarian, I would be no less interested in joining these folks than i was in spending time with the tea party crowd. They are just 2 sides of the same coin.

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