Scott Horton Interviews Roy Gutman

Scott Horton, January 12, 2012

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Roy Gutman, Baghdad Bureau Chief for McClatchy Newspapers, discusses the bureaucratic hindrances to the MEK’s move out of Camp Ashraf in Iraq; how individual asylum cases will essentially force the MEK to disband (as no country is willing to accept the whole group); Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki’s efforts to consolidate power in the splintered and unworkable Iraqi government system; the many Iraqi politicians with huge security forces that also function as hit squads against rivals; why Iraq’s political outcome is critical to the region, world oil market and Western world; how Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey are jockeying for position in the “up for grabs” countries of Syria and Iraq; why US intervention in the Middle East is necessary to protect oil resources and fill the security vacuum; and the merits of US interventionism in general, from Iraq to Afghanistan.

MP3 here. (63:43)

Roy Gutman is the Baghdad Bureau Chief for McClatchy Newspapers.

He formerly served as McClatchy’s foreign editor, as diplomatic correspondent for Newsweek, and as director of American University’s Crimes of War Project. He won a Pulitzer Prize for his coverage of the 1993 war in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where he provided the first documented reports of concentration camps.

Gutman’s honors include the Pulitzer Prize for international reporting, the George Polk Award for foreign reporting, the Selden Ring Award for investigative reporting, and a special Human Rights in Media Award from the International League for Human Rights. He holds an M.A. in international relations from the London School of Economics.

55 Responses to “Roy Gutman”

  1. Can we have less of this nonsense. Gutman is he Gutzman's cousin at the Shining Path. Here we listen to absolute uncontested lies. Afghanistan before the US decided to install the Taliban had running water in Kabul, Jimi hendix on the radio, girls in mini skirts and Iranian rock and roll bands shipped in to play Credence Clearwater Revival gigs at 500 persons wedding festivals at the Hilton Hotel. The US supported the levelled this society to bring in country without electricity, where the only singer allowed on the radio was Cat Stevens and justice was dispensed by a peasant in rags living hovel lit by parrafin lamps (Mullah Omar). 100,000 of people were killed in the most barbaric fashion and this was the pinanacle of US strategic success and troofer Horton agrees with Gutzman from the shining path that this was US style democracy. Why would anyone listen to Horton's garbage.

    Britian left functioning schools, railways and libraries behind in their Empire, France left a love of culture, food and music. In Afghanistan the US didn't even leave Coca Cola tins. They left a flat society that made Pohl Pott's Cambodia look like a 21 century state. This is US civilisationa d real politik at it's best.

  2. Can we have less of this nonsense. Gutman is he Gutzman's cousin at the Shining Path? Here we listen to absolute uncontested lies. Afghanistan before the US decided to install the Taliban had running water in Kabul and the major towns and cities, Jimmy Hendrix on the radio, girls in mini skirts and Iranian rock and roll bands shipped in to play Credence Clearwater Revival gigs at 500 persons wedding festivals at the Hilton Hotel. 1,500,000 Western tourists visited the coutry each year. The local government had a form of democracy and a tribal elder system probably more democratic than Marvin Bush in Florida. The Taliban levelled this society to bring in country without electricityc and justice was dispensed by an illiterate peasant in rags living hovel lit by parrafin lamps (Mullah Omar). 100,000's of people were killed in the most barbaric fashion in a violent civil war. This was the pinanacle of a US strategic success. Why would anyone listen to Horton's garbage.

  3. Shut the f*k up tonbridge.

    Theres more vomit and racism in those two posts than the KKK could ever dream of.

    How about you and your magnanimous buddies the french and the british STAY THE FUCK OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES COUNTRIES. No one needs your white man's burden bullshit.

  4. Scott you should've stuck to your instincts. Mr. Gutman's facts were not correct. We in the US have to be disabused of this notion that somehow our subjugation is enlightened or better then previous colonial powers. How else will America maintain its dignity after we are bankrupt and can't afford the empire. Mr. Gutman is an apologist for American exceptional ism.

  5. BTW, Scott it was still generous of you to give him an additional segment. He decides that it was ok for India to have nuclear weapons but not Pakistan. What arrogance and the he says "Protect the American public and world security". This guy is an apologist for American empire. So he is saying not that its wrong but we are not doing it well enough.

  6. Wrong country Marcos, "white man's burden" was the abolitionists ending the Arab slave trade in Africa (Gordon in Khartoum), Afghanistan was the great game and the KKK was a nasty little US operation. But don't worry Marcos as an educated American we all know you find identifying Texas on the mao a challenging operation. Don't bother to reply as youo obviously find writing a trial hence the need to fill in the letters. Just sit down and have a juice box,

  7. EMPIRES — HOW THEY LORD IT OVER US

    ShutDeadTheUS
    “Time for Russian authorities to stop playing double standard.
    Russia is absolutely doing nothing to stop the Americans
    from killing innocent people around the world.”

    Actually, its not a “double standard,” but a triple absolute. To wit —

    THREE EMPIRE AGREEMENT
    (1) The world shall be divide into three kingdoms, with the Empires of Russia, China and USA forever ruling over nations in the world that they defended in World War Two.

    (2) No Empire shall in the slightest interfere with the way another Empire rules his kingdom. The only exception being if nuclear weapons may explode.

    (3) If an Empire shares in the economy of a nation not in its kingdom, like Iran which shares in the economy of all three Empires, then any dispute they may have shall be resolved by the UN Security Council.

    (4) If this Agreement is violated by one Empire, then the other two Empires may join forces and commence World War Three.

  8. EMPIRES — HOW THEY LORD IT OVER US

    ShutDeadTheUS
    “Time for Russian authorities to stop playing double standard.
    Russia is absolutely doing nothing to stop the Americans
    from killing innocent people around the world.”

    Actually, its not a “double standard,” but a triple absolute. To wit —

    THREE EMPIRE AGREEMENT
    (1) The world shall be divide into three kingdoms, with the Empires of Russia, China and USA forever ruling over nations in the world that they defended in World War Two.

    (2) No Empire shall in the slightest interfere with the way another Empire rules his kingdom. The only exception being if nuclear weapons may explode.

    (3) If an Empire shares in the economy of a nation not in its kingdom, like Iran which shares in the economy of all three Empires, then any dispute they may have shall be resolved by the UN Security Council.

    (4) If this Agreement is violated by one Empire, then the other two Empires may join forces and commence World War Three.

  9. Shorter version of your challenge, Scott:

    Name one U.S. intervention where the locals were better afterwards.

    You can use Kinzer's Overthrow as your ref.

    The answer is NONE.

  10. No planning for Iraq afterwards? What about the 19-volume (or was it 19,000 pages, who can remember) State Dept study on nation building Iraq? How quickly one forgets.

  11. This guy is hopeless. He keeps arguing both
    1. U.S. should intervene.
    2. No one in the U.S. has proved competent at intervention.

  12. What the hell is this clown doing on Anti-War Radio?

  13. I suppose in the interest of "balance", an insidious Western disease – a requirement applied selectively, of course, to any 'progressive' or 'liberal' or 'libertarian' media outlet – you will have to occasionally invite a 'mainstream / establishment' newsperson on your show. Gutman is a typical example. He faithfully repeated, ad nauseam, establishment positions on anything and everything about the geopolitical situation in the Middle East.
    It is commendable that you countered his illogical and weak justifications for Empire by logical, forceful and fact-based arguments.
    The encouraging and positive thing, I strongly suspect and as the comments of your listeners illustrate, is that very few of us, if any, would 'buy' the imperial claptrap that Gutman was bending out of shape to sell.
    We Americans are too intelligent, if I may say so, to buy into his 'snake oil' sales efforts.

  14. tonbridge, it is you and not Scott who comes off as irrational(not to mention fanatical) as evidenced by the histrionic raving in your comments. if you'd been listening, you'd know that the host is opposed to ALL US foreign interventions, not for some and against others.

  15. when you act as an apologist for US Foreign policy, you are on a thankless, fool's task. Listening to Gutman is exhausting – he obviously really believes or has convinced himself to believe that whenever there's a dispute somewhere in the world, the US HAS to be involved to ensure democracy wins. How foolish he must look to the policy-makers who know US interventionism is all about money and controlling resources(and regions of the world).

  16. Scott Horton says he is always in support of a people trying to throw off their dictatorial government. The truth is Afghanistan was a split tribal society the Chinese had been making huge inroads into the society with their bare foot doctor program and their education provisions for the masses of urban poor in Kabul and Herat. The King had been deposed by a coup, six months prior and the military had asked the UN to arrange and supervise an election which was universally held to be both fair and free. This democratically elected government lent towards China. The US then decided to overthrow it supporting a violent civil war instigated and armed by the CIA. The government appealed to the Chinese to help but China was unwilling to commit to another war against the US so they turned to the Soviets. This Horton portays as a heroic struggle against a dictatorship rather than a violent brutal insurgency against one of the very few democratically elected governments in the region to usher in a regime worse than Cambodia.

  17. Scoot Horton's position on Afghanistan is mirrored by his postion on Syria, Libya and Kosovo all of which are indistinguishable from the State Department's postions. Of course he also he would not finance the CIA but instead spends ninety per cent of his time providing an outlet for CIA apologists like Giraldi and Porter. You go figure it out.

  18. It's just a bunch of well meaning people with hearts of gold striving selflessly and thanklessly to save those less fortunate around the world from the forces of evil, making an honest mistake here and there.

    I have a great interview idea. How much should the tooth fairy really leave under my pillow, Scott?

  19. You seem to gloss over the part where the Soviet Union invades afghanistan, installs a communist puppet government and kills 2 million afghanis. I wouldn't call fighting against that a "brutal insurgency" – the same language might I add that the U.S. used to describe the Iraqi resistance to their occupation of Iraq – but rather a genuine resistance movement. does the CIA meddle in every affair around the globe that doesn't concern them? sure. Does that delegitimize a violent struggle against a violent foreign occupation? I dont think so. I also highly doubt the afghanis have ever tasted real democracy, since it's just a hodge podge of tribes that all seem to hate each other and couldn't form a functioning government to rule over all of them. Your spiel about the wonders of Chinese "democracy" sounds like a PR campaign for Beijing..

  20. I really think you're missing the boat – it's about non-interventionism as a principle. something you do not seem to grasp or agree with, given your love affair with European and Chinese Imperialism.

  21. Yeaah and Saddam Hussain nuklear bombs and teaspoon of chemical weapons that could kill everyone in the New York. The incubator babies existed and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Also the Chinese run PR campaigns

    Get real, the only countries running PR campaigns exist in the West. Public Relations stupid are not part of Communist system.. Just look at words stupid and waker up.

  22. "Afghanistan before the US decided to install the Taliban"

    Yeah well, real events were a LITTLE BIT more complex.

    "Britian left functioning schools, railways and libraries behind in their Empire"

    You may want to read up on Iraqi history. Yes, the got a railway. Not much else.

    "France left a love of culture, food and music."

    LOLWHAT. I probably could easily find some colored people who are likely to …uh… "vigorously contest" that kind of affirmation.

  23. Chinese imperialism have you gone mad, the last time China was an imperialist power was during a period of expansion between 1350 and 1425.

  24. Haven't listened yet, but just wanted to say to Tonbridge that there is more to Afghanistan than Kabul, which is not representative of the rest of the country. And I find it amusing that you judge the status of a society by whether they have girls in miniskirts and rock 'n roll.

  25. Gotta admire how Scott pulls the historical rope at 37:40 to counter the (sadly inane) "Power Vacuum that must be filled by the US" (i.e. the reluctant benevolent interventionist) argument.

  26. No one enriches them self upon your misery in ignorance

    Milos Komarek
    “The real rulers of the USA either don’t want to learn
    lessons from the past or aren’t capable to do that:”

    LIGHT
    Quite the reverse, for the “real rulers” are the real rich 51% most wealthy voting majority the world has ever known. Which means that they are the most crafty, most knowledgeable and most educated bunch of scoundrels to ever plunder by brutal imperialism and most terrorizing wars of aggression.

    So, pure greed is something we must not label as ignorance or lack of a desire to know the truth, but a matter of their mainstream media fooling the world into thinking they are the “international community” and most “concerned that Iran may be building nuclear weapons.”

  27. It is XtheftX or Qur'an MOhammad PBUH

  28. Damn, this guy is a cruise missile liberal

  29. Mr. Horton,

    May I suggest that you look into how Roy Gutman won his Pulitzer Prize.

  30. He says Saddam had "all these wars" and inflicted "all this poverty" on Iraq. No mention of US / UK (not UN; the world was appalled by the brutality of the sanctions, but the US and UK had insisted that lifting sanctions would require a UN security council vote, where the US / UK both have veto power) sanctions that Von Sponeck and Haliday called "genocidal" when they quit in moral disgust. The calculated murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians with epidemic and famine does not rank a mention. No honesty about our long relationship with Saddam and our complicity in his crimes. We always mean well and sometimes have bad options. What the fuck! Take a look in the mirror, sir. Vietnam was not a mistake! It was a vast criminal enterprise that murdered millions of human beings. If you can't own up to that, you lack the moral authority to criticize anyone.

  31. ..
    Roy Gutman is a putz and just another robot for empire.
    ..
    However, he is also a genius for denying the role of the CIA in the establishment of Saddam Hussein and, more significantly, never mentioning the presence and role of Israel and the Zionist Lobby in the last five decades of madness.
    ..
    For a specialist in the middle east, his knowledge is lacking.
    ..
    Clearly, gatekeepers come in all stripes, colors, political affiliations and levels of competence.

  32. Carl.Thanks a lot.You are so right. Trident chief missile engineer Bob Aldridge -www.plrc.org-wrote on the missiles in Bulgaria, Romania and Poland: "Whether they are on ships or land, they are still a necessary component for an unanswerable first strike." Only for Blackmail ?

  33. tell that to the Tibetans and the Uighurs in Xinjiang province, who have been occupied and are being displaced culturally and demographically. Give me a break, everyone has PR, especially the Chinese. They aren't even really commuinst anymore, certainly not ideologically. And I didn't say you were actually working for China, you just sound like a spokesperson for their foreign ministry. I don't even know why I'm debating you, you're calling people names like a child, insulting everyone who disagrees with you,just grow up and grow a pair of balls no one's going to listen to you talking like that.

  34. As Serb I know how much EVIL PROPAGANDA has been puked over us Serbs to the present day by PRESStitutes like Mr.Roy Gutman
    Shame on you Scoot Horton!
    What is that “Anti-War” in the name stand for?!!
    How about “Propaganda Radio” instead?!

    I’m copy pasting interesting comment on Pulitzer Prize-Winner Roy Gutman’s book written by John P. Maher .
    ———–
    John P. Maher (USA)

    This review is from: A Witness to Genocide: The 1993 Pulitzer Prize-Winning Dispatches on the “Ethnic Cleansing” of Bosnia (Paperback)
    Roy Gutman’s Witness to Genocide is false witness. Janet Cooke got dumped, but Roy Gutman has gone on to media stardom. The Pulitzer Prize winning writer of Witness to Genocide speaks American English, but from the text of “his” book I must infer that that someone other than an English-speaker wrote at least parts of the book. How do we know? Easy, if you’re a language scholar. Teachers have fun cautioning their pupils about treacherous look-alike but mean-different words. French teachers call them “false friends — faux amis”. E.g. take the word “preservative.” In English this refers to chemical additives that retard spoilage of foods. In Europe “preservatives” are condoms.–At table once in an Alpine village I had to interpret for an American lady who had just nonplussed her Italian hosts with her recipe for home-baked bread –”I never use preservatives.” Tell-tale examples of faux amis indicate that no American, but a Yugoslav hand, wrote several passages of “Witness”. See page 51. Pseudo-Gutman wrote “.. genitals plucked out.” A speaker of idiomatic English knows that, while Anglo-Saxon eyes are plucked out, our genitals are cut off.
    Pages 55 and 57: no English-speaker would ever have written “his back was blue and red from the blows.” Our backs are only beaten black and blue. Gutman’s Pulitzer should be returned.

  35. Ok Scott i appreciate hearing both sides of the argument but isnt this just two corners of the same argument. Why dont i hear both corners of the antiwar argument, like a Webster Tarpley? and also it is dissappointing that his interview is 60 minutes i think we only need to here 30 minutes of his drivel tops. Give me 60 minutes of Pepe or Wil Engdahl. I personally would love to hear you debate Tarpley

  36. To anyone interested in Roy Gutman's conduct during the Yugoslav conflict, I would recommend reading "Media Cleansing: Dirty Reporting" by Peter Brock.
    http://www.amazon.com/Media-Cleansing-Dirty-Repor

  37. I admit… I am convinced to the financial doom-and-gloomers in regards to the market. Has anyone discovered any ray of optimism throughout this “dip”?

  38. I do know what you mean concerning the economic crisis. This rising cost of living is not good plus we can easily see it’ll probably become worse. sigh.

  39. Thank you Ashraf. Short and excellently to the point.

  40. there are numerous questions pertaining Gutman's reporting from Bosnia/Croatia during the early 1990s. His report on Jadranka Cigelj launched the "rape camps" hysteria. He is known to have associated with Cigelj for a long time, and she happens to be a senior propagandist in the Croatian government, and before that in the war propaganda department in Croatia. She was co-chairman of the rightwing HDZ party.

  41. Surprising this guy would be interviewed here. He cant back up any of his comments, only suggesting we read his book, which we need to trust has been "thoroughly researched so that there are no mistakes" but cant seem to remember what he wants to say in interview. Scott politely exposed his foolishness, but probably could have been a bit more assertive. Too much respect for this guy going into the interview, Im guessing. Probably didn't expect him to be so thoroughly imperialist.

  42. "5000 people killed in Syria."

    I hear this over and over with no qualifications or or even an attempt at an examination. Are these 5000 only the people killed by the Assad regime? When our media cites this number they do it with an implicit condemnation of Assad. But what about the people killed in the bombings in Damascus.? Are those presumably pro-Assad civilians included in this number? Does it include armed insurgents killed in fighting? What about the soldiers and police killed by the insurgents – are they part of the 5000? Fine – cite this statistic, but at least try to clear up or acknowledge some of these ambiguities. American reporters are overpaid, echo producers.

  43. Scott, where are you? Been dying for more interviews for weeks now, it seems.

  44. Oh my…
    You're being cenZored all over!… From here to kpF-K… Your choice or did 'tHeY' finally get the right 'HOoVeR FiLE' on you???…

    This is not good… We all miss the interesting and informative interviews you get… (Especially when you ACTUALLY let Gareth Porter speak rather than interviewing yourself hee! hee!) oH by the way you should do that once and awhile… You have a great grasp of intelligent insights on the world!!!

    We all Miss you Scott-Y (YOU!! are the 'Other' (YOUNGER!) by the way…) Horton.
    Fill us in, huh?!!!
    Your Own personal… ('Jan')… STALKER!!!

  45. IT IS INdeed Team followMoneyMoza vs Team followRasoolAllah Aaed

    PM/WTO 46U$PeeBookz vs UsamaMen Ekhlas
    FM AbodzAIGQrashwi vs Awlaqi's Wisdom
    DM Mossad-Tradez vs Nejad's Ehram
    IM JamalArdoghanLOVEstories vs Hania Syam
    Mal SabahJalabiVisa'z vs MunjedMasajidco

  46. Roy Gutman is a completely counterfactual propogandist and apologist for empire. Scott tried to expose his lies and spin but there was so much myth and delusion in what Gutman said that it was impossible to deal with it all.

  47. I was there, it was like it is here in the U.S. just enough to be fun… Oh yeah village life was different, Isn't it here too and wasn't it then…??? People got along more or less… There was NOT a lot of shooting…. But the U.S. was a driving force to destabilize Afghanistan because they represented the equal sharing of influence there with the USSR… And that Neoconn creative-destruction of Muslim societies mania we so assiduously enforce on the Muslims…. In the end all this trouble was avoidable, and several trillion dollars have been lost pleasing the Neocons and destroying Muslim cultures, and at least eight thousand Americans dead there…

    But the REAL danger to all the trouble makers and creative destroyers: They have woken the sleeping giant from a five hundred year slumber…. AND gotten the genni out too…!!! It will be a nuclear armed Uumah from decades ago to far beyond…… Do you think that it is what they had in mind when their project was initiated…???

  48. He provided the casus belli for the war against Serbia…!!!

    "While a Newsday Europe correspondent, Mr. Gutman's reports on "ethnic cleansing" in Bosnia-Herzegovina — including the first documented accounts of Serb-run concentration camps — won the Pulitzer Prize for international reporting (1993), the George Polk Award for foreign reporting, the Selden Ring Award for investigative reporting, the Hal Boyle award of the Overseas Press Club, the Heywood Broun Award of the Newspaper Guild — and a special Human Rights in Media award of the International League for Human Rights."

  49. Roy Gutman was awarded a Pulitzer Prize for his agitprop reporting on a Serb rape camp where thousands of Muslim women were being raped. Four other reporters went to the site and found out that two or four women max had been raped by someone; their reports were spiked by their networks. Books are still being written about that and other Serb rape or death camps that never existed.

    Actually the biggest act of cleansing and mass murder was the Croatian Operation Storm that cleared the Krajina of Serbs, with many horribly murdered by Croat soldiers. The US provided operational support and jammed Serb communications.

    As an American I am still deeply distressed, sickened, that my country would enable the neo-Nazi Croats and the Muslim jihad in the Balkans. The US capped off the 1990’s by being the air force for the KLA Muslim jihad in Kosovo with the bombing of Yugoslavia. Since then I have watched the US continue to support Muslim jihads, and most recently with the US enabling the Muslim Brotherhood in multiple countries in the Middle East, the biggest strategic mistake by the West since the 1500’s.

    Far worse is to come, for which we will pay a heavy price.

  50. Yes, excellent book on the subject.

  51. Good to see that there are some people that know something near the truth as opposed to the agitprop spun out by Gutman.

  52. Roy Gutman is also an apologist for the racist demonization of the Serbs, and a cowardly liar.

  53. which we need to trust has been "thoroughly researched so that there are no mistakes" but cant seem to remember what he wants to say in interview. Scott politely exposed his foolishness

  54. Great post about this. I'm surprised to see someone so educated in the matter. I am sure my visitors will find that very useful.

  55. I found lots of interesting information here. The post was professionally written and I feel like the author has extensive knowledge in this subject.

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