Michael Scheuer, former chief of the CIA’s bin Laden unit and author of Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraq, discusses his view that the U.S. betrayal of loyal dictator Musharraf is terrible for Pakistan and U.S. interests in the region, the rising hatred of U.S. foreign policy in the Muslim World, the detrimental effect of the U.S. government’s Israel-centric foreign policy, Ron Paul’s effort to explain to the American people why al Qaeda attacked us on 9/11, why a Ron Paul-style foreign policy would be the worst thing for them, energy independence, future war for oil in Nigeria, Cheney’s argument that al Qaeda in Iraq could ever take over that land, the failure of the media to challenge politicians on this point, his view that Obama, McCain and Clinton – due to their Israel-first stances – will stay in Iraq for at least the next four years, the danger to Israel posed by the neocons’ stupid policies, the extraordinary rendition program and his role in creating it, the necessity of figuring out a way to apply the rule of law to those detained in the terror war, torture, al Libbi’s tortured accusations of ties between Saddam and Osama, his CIA team’s proving that there were no such ties before the war, the strategy behind the September 11th attacks, the fact that Osama has explained exactly what that strategy is for 10 years, and a brief sketch of his new book.

MP3 here. (40:42)

Michael Scheuer is a 22-year veteran of the CIA and the author of Through Our Enemies Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America, Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraqand Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror.

Ray McGovern, veteran intelligence analyst for the CIA, joins Charles in studio to discuss George Bush’s criminal “authorization” of the torture of human beings, the arrogance of those who hold unlimited power, the details of the conspiracy between Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, Condoleezza Rice, and George Tenet to get it done, the Democrats’ refusal to do a thing about it, how the retroactive immunity in and the Military Commissions Act of 2006 makes it easier for foreign courts to indict these war criminals, the difference between the analytical and “Gestapo” side of the CIA, the recent ABC News torture conspiracy revelations, the question of retroactive immunity in the torture and NSA domestic spying cases, the supreme war crime and “accumulated evils” of aggressive war, the urgency of impeachment as a preventive measure against war with Iran, John McCain’s insane neocon crew and their desire for war with Iran, Elliot Abrams dangerous role in Iran policy and the centrality of Israel to the neocon agenda, the lies about Iran’s role in Iraq and his giving back of his commendation medal given to him by George H.W. Bush.

MP3 here. (58:23)

Ray McGovern was a CIA analyst for 27 years – from the John F. Kennedy administration to that of George H. W. Bush. He is a co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.