We interrupt this endless WikiLeaks news cycle to report on something else. (It isn’t likely to end anyhow, and will probably be the dominant news paradigm here at Antiwar.com for many months, at least.)
You may have heard that Argentina and its small, similar neighbor Uruguay have followed Brazil’s lead in recognizing Palestine as a state. This is significant and desirable for several reasons.
First, it is desirable that Palestine be recognized as a state because for now, this is the only way any geographical area or people can be even somewhat independent. To clarify — the recognition of a Palestinian state does not conjure one out of thin air and it doesn’t cast off Israel’s occupation as if it only took a certain number of countries to just stop believing in the monster anymore. It is just a rhetorical and diplomatic wedge. Yes, even once independent they will still have to deal with a crappy government run by crooked religionists. This is indisputably better than dealing with Jews-only roads, wholesale theft of ancestral land, psychotic settlers, and the possibility or likelihood of being murdered for protesting all of this.
Previously, only other Muslim countries and some former Soviet states recognized Palestine. This is not a bad thing, but as they say, you are judged by the company you keep, and these countries aren’t generally known as, well, good. We’re talking about blatant kleptocracies and theocracies that make Gaza look like Vegas. They also happen to have few or no Jews, with the exception of Iran. All of this is why the latest round of recognitions is so significant.
Brazil is on its way up as an economic powerhouse, and is quite liberal, democratic, and Western all around, despite its problems. Uruguay and Argentina are (more or less) long-time first-world countries, which, combined with Brazil, represent another several hundred million of the world’s people. These countries have close ties with Europe and the United States. They also have large, assimilated Jewish populations — especially and famously, Argentina. In fact, the official who announced the Argentine decision is himself Jewish. This bolsters the Palestinians’ point that their struggle is not anti-Jewish; they simply want to stay on their own land.
Israel is angry, of course, not least of all because it relies on anti-Jewish sentiment to scare up money and support from American Jews.
I expect a wave of recognitions across Latin America in the coming weeks. Contrary to Israeli-US talking points on the issue, this does not undermine peace, which despite decades of expensive blather was never really on the table. It rather ramps up the discussion, forces it onto a new plane. Israel can either try and probably fail to continue to buy the world’s support for its occupation, or it can serve itself and the world better by cutting its losses and making the situation right. It would certainly not put Israel in a good position to block these countries’ efforts to establish diplomatic relations with the Palestinians.
It’s not clear what actual changes we may see after these developments, but it will at least be something new to watch. The endless cycle of fake peace talks and ignored “agreements” between parties of such obvious bad faith is so tiresome.
Good post. Agreed.
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Bravo Argentina! Brazil and Uruguay. About damn time. Now, if the Palestinians would just wake up and do likewise. Oh yeah, Israel is gonna be angry. Israel is ALWAYS angry about one thing or some other thing. Eric Cantor will spit rubber nickles and Billy 'warmongering' Kristol will shriek bloody murder. So? We all know US "Middle East peace negotiations" are a slanted (jaded?) exercise in utter hypocritical futility.
Argentina's recognition of Palestine will give old Vig Lieberman a twist in his knickers he won't be able to unwind for a while.
Its also good to see Latin America can do what it wants independent of a bullying USA.
Argentina , Brazil , or all of Latin America for that matter can favor a palestinian state , but it will not happen , until TWO things occur . First , Israel's right to exist must be recognized -and PUBLICLY , Second , Israel's security issues must be addressed . So keep your panties on , Israel 's not going anywhere , nor will it be groveling any time soon . The " so called sacred '68 boundries " were not good enough for the palestinians , in fact there are no borders acceptable to the palestinians , and to Israel's neighbors, engrossed in their Pan-Arab dream of Israel's destruction .
Oh and btw , just what is it that Latin America can do ? Support the palestinians ? Pfeh !~ bigger and badder dogs support ther Palestinians , and have …like the Soviets , etc. Suck it up Israel stands , and will always have the support of the US….
like the soviets who were the first state in the world to recognize the state of israel?
Wikipedia claims that the US was the first state to recognize Israel, if you include de facto recognition. USSR was the first de jure. Of course, the OP is too stupid to understand terms like "de jure" and "de facto" recognition, with his nonsense about "recognizing state X's right to exist."
(WP article is "Israeli Declaration of Independence.")
"First , Israel's right to exist must be recognized …"
Do states _ever_ recognize one another's "right to exist" per se? AFAICT they recognize each other, but without the verbiage you suggest.
And when has Israel recognized the "right to exist" of a Palestinian state? I mean "right to exist," as I distinguish in the above paragraph.
"… -and PUBLICLY , Second , Israel's security issues must be addressed ."
What about the security issues of the Palestinians and Israel's other neighbors? For the past few decades, it's clearly Israel that's been the far more militant beligerent in the regions conflicts.
Playing with words does not support an argument liberal . The "right to exist " is emphasized primarily because the Palestinian National Charter , which is emndorsed by 80% of palestinians , EXPLICITLY calls for the destruction of Israel , and any peace , truce , cease-fire , or agreements are merely a next step to that end . The Palestinians have made that quite clear over the past decades . The removal of that language in the Charter was THE FIRST step to be taken by the palestinians in the Oslo Agreement , it was never met , and has come before the palestinian National Council at least three times , yet the language was NOT removed . Only dupers believe otherwise .
So yes . "The right to exist " as it applies to making peace with an adversarry , who is sworn by covenant to destroy the entity in which it engages in "peace vtalks " is an absolute necessity . I suggest you read that Charter and the Hamas Charter as well .
and as for any "beligerance "on Israel's part , in the region ? any military actions taken by Israel have been defensive and reactionary , and exercised accordingly to the beligerance of it's neighbors , namely Syria which is STILL technically at war with Israel , past incursion from palestinians across the Jordanian border , and numerous acts of war perpetrated by the 'proxies " in Lebanon .
" Far more militant beligerant in the regions conflicts " ??? What in the hell are you talking about ?
There is legally no such thing as "right to exist". Israel became recognized by UN Security Council, and became member of UN. The significance of recognition is simple. It forces a country that is asking for the recognition to declare its borders. With the phrase "right to exist" Israel is trying to get the recognition without any mention of borders, or more correctly, would like some new, yet to be specified borders to be recognized. Others may be excused for not wanting to be so vague on Israel's territorial claims. By asking countries to recognize its "right to exist" (without mention of borders), and as "a Jewish state", Israel is apparently claiming the occupied territory. Such designation would take all the citizenship rights away from the Arab population, on the territory Israel is going to claim. Placing settlements on the occupied territory is against international law, and the occupator knows it. Since all the attempts at solving the issue of borders and the two state solution seem to be out of the realm of possibility, other countries are now recognizing Palestine as coverting the territory outside of Israel's UN recognized borders.
Every Dog Has its Day. Israel will pay for its warcrimes
….because , IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO .
Why does Israel constantly whine about needing other nations to 'recognize its right to exist'? Is Israeli self-esteem so low that only by others' praise and or validation they can stand themselves? What happens to this Israeli self-loathing when they whine for such a long time that the world shuts its ears to their bleating?
The best thing for Israel to do is to recognize what the end result is going to look like- a Palestinian state based on the pre-'67 border- and go ahead and begin forging good relations with the expected first generation of Palestinian leaders. The settlers can be given the choice to leave and settle in Israel or remain and become citizens of Palestine- and none of this dual-citizenship nonsense.
LOL….it matters not whether the world listens or hears .Israel survives to this day by it's own volition , and has enough support around the globe to that end . Arabs have already proven that the 67 borders weren't good enough , niether were the 48 borders for that matter …..that's why there have been Five Wars . And btw the "first generation " of palestinian "leaders " have already been poisoned and inculcated with the same hatred of Israel as the previous , and no doubt will behave in the same way , with the same results .
Bravo to Lula and Cristina (who should especially savour the annoyance this will cause the US State Department).
A well reasoned and insightful post. Well done.
http://politicalreviewonline.com/
As badaboo well knows recognition of Israel (plus trade and cultural ties) have been offered many times over in exchange of withdrawal from lands it stole in 67. The last time was the Abduallah Plan initiated by Saudi Arabia and endorsed by the Arab League.
US supports Israel because of the vice like grip of the Israeli lobby and and its 5th columnist leaders like Eric Cantor and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.
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Isn't it obvious , that you are oblivious to reality .RECOGNITION [OF ISRAEL"S RIGHT TO EXIST } is not something the saudis can offer whilst vthe Palestinians will not recind the language of their covrenant ….perhaps you are dyslexic , and cannot comprehend what you have'or haven;t bothered to read . It is also the saudis paying families of suicide bombers. What is OBVIOUS is that the Saudis speak out of both sides of their mouths . Your estimation of the power of any Isarel lobby is B.S. while it certainly does exist , over 73% of Americans support Israel , without the aide or insistence of any lobbies . In the case of israel politicians follow the lead of their constituents .
Stolen lands ??? Go study your history .
Oblivious to reality? The biggest achievement of your lobby is that they have blinded American and most of the West to the degree that the aggressor was painted into the victim.
B.S. huh? Well what of Cantor's pledge of allegiance to Israel over the nation of which he is a nominal citizen? 99% of Congress (terrified of the financial and media clout of the lobby) fall over themselves to to prove who is more obediant to the irredentistist zionist agenda. Every time Israel commits another atrocity against Palestinian civilians, Congress issues another embarrassingly servile vote result (will Stalin like majorities) in support.
I know my history very well, and am sure I have read more on this subject than you – no doubt you consider the authorititative 'historians' on the middle east to be self serving ethnic activists like Daniel Pipes, Martin Kramer, Efraim Karsh (none of whom are taken seriously in Israeli academic circles). Three quarters of Palestine was taken by force when the indigenous inhaibtants were terrorised and expelled in 1948, but the conquest of the last quarter has proved to be more intractable. The biggest joke is that there is evidence that Palestinians themselves may well largely be of Hebrew stock (Islam spread in numbers by the conversions of people in conquered territory).
Whatever Palestinians write in their national charter is irrelevant to the facts on the ground when comparing a ragtag guerilla force to a superpower. In military terms Israel to the Palestinians is a Great White Shark to a minnow. The only military threat to Israel could come from neighbouring states, and peace with them could come in a stroke by withdrawing from the Occupied Territories. This deal has been the regional and international consensus since the early 1970s.
Not only is every single you right incorrect, you KNOW perfectly well they are all false. You might have pulled the wool over the eyes of most Americans, but as long as a few who take the trouble to find out the facts, the remaining few percent will continue to elude you, and in fact grow – not least of which among young American Jews.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Thank you for expressing AND exposing your own utter ignorance on the subject ,BTW I estimnate Cantoir a fool and the others IRRELEVANT . I have indeed studied the subject , and superficially as YOU obviously have done . In fact I have studied it for thew past 40 years . In 1948 , immmediately following the UN RESOLUTION which created the STATE OF ISRAEL , and the subsequent rec ognition by MOST of the UN Nations , JORDAN , EGYPT , SYRIA LEBANON and IRAQ declared war on the New State . The arabs living in Israel who were NOT YET CALLED PALESTINIANS by ANYONE , were admonished by the arabs in the region to immediately LEAVE Israel , lest they be destroyed along with the Jews . 360,000 left on t heir own , they were not driven out , expecting fully to teturn AFTER the destruction of Israel . There was no term "palestinian " until the late 60's when Arafat [an Egyptian ] started hijacking and blowing up airliners . There was no Jewish lobby when Truman cast his vote . More jews were thrown out of Iraq than palestinians leaving Israel . Maybe you gt yoyur facts from WIKEPEDIA , the EDITABLE ENCYCLOPEDIA .
360,000 arabs left Israel in 1948 , when FIVE arab countries declared war on the New State . They were admonished by the arabs of the region to leave lest they be destroyed along with Israel .
Your knowledge is supewrficial at best .And it';s obvious that your studies on the subject were not doine in earnest .
At that time there was NO ENTITY , called "palestinians " , that word was adopted in the late 60's when Arafat [an Egyptian ] began hijacking and blowing up airliners . I have in fact studied the subject , since 1965 , most likely well before you were born . I consider cantor a fool and vthe others irrelevant , used only by people like you for talking points , which is about the extent of your knowledge on the subject .
Educate yourself –
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian
state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of
Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference
between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for
political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of
a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit
the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism…
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined
borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian,
I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.
However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will
not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." – PLO executive
committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch
newspaper Trouw.
Isn't it obvious -you dont need me toi fool you , you've done a great job of that on yourself – educate yourself –
"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for
all-out war, a war which will last for generations." –
Yasser Arafat, former leader of the PLO.
"We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by
psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." – Yasser Arafat,
former leader of the PLO.
But hey man , it's a free country , if you want to put your brain up on the shelf …lol…feel free CHUMP
"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for
all-out war, a war which will last for generations." –
Yasser Arafat, former leader of the PLO.
"We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by
psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." – Yasser Arafat,
former leader of the PLO.
So get yourself an eduication -Isn;t it obvious , your talking points and superficial knowledge make you look the fool . Besides you dont need me to fool anyone , you have already made yourself a DUPE . LOL…perhaps your less than earnest , and less than honest investigation , was based on wikipedia , the editable revisionists favorite reference source .
You're all wet chump . Go educate yourself brefore spouting your tripe .
"We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely
Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for j_ws by
psychological warfare and population explosion. We Palestinians will
take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." – Yasser Arafat,
former leader of the PLO.
Truth, many times has a silencing effect . Maybe the " liberal ", or "isn't it obvious " , or John Mohamed , would care to refute any of the above .And the FACT , that absolutely nothing has changed regarding the agendas and ultimate goal of the palestinians , and they haved PROVED it time and again ,by their words and deeds , over the past 5 decades .It pervades all of their media , and is taught in their schools, K thru College . Only the blind , the uninformed or the hopelessly naive cannot see this . However I suspect bias over the above , since if one has the mental capacity to operate a computer , then it is assumed , those same can read , obsaerve and comprehend .
So INDEED! Mr. Isn't it obvious , it surely IS a matter of WHO is trying to fool WHO ? In your case chump , it's a matter of the uninformed AND misinformed foisting revisionism on the astutely informed . Go try your spiel on some 3rd or 4th graders , whom you can browbeat .
As for the irrelevance you claim , regarding the Palestinian Natiional Charter ,Mr.Isn't it obvious , you no doubt have not read it , nor the more recent Hamas Charter ….keeping your head in the sand , and ignoring these documents is indicative of your bias , and inability to argue this issue with any credulity .
Buyt I guess you are what you are eh ?
Yup….that's what I thought , and the same for the rest of the cheerleaders on this thread .
I’ve been visiting your blog for a while now and I always find a gem in your new posts. Thanks for your usual wonderful effort
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