From today’s Ron Paul Liberty Report:
At the NATO summit in Vilnius this July, the alliance will for the first time in decades approve a classified plan for war with Russia. The plan will reportedly assign specific tasks and locations to NATO country members. Is this just another escalation…or possibly a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Reprinted from The Ron Paul Institute for Peace & Prosperity.
New ones?
Aren’t the current ones working?
Or is something is about to happen where they really need to rethink things?
Or maybe it will fail and they believe they’ll need to figure out something new…like talking instead of shooting?
May 18, 2023 The U.S. Should Be a Force for Peace in the World
The Russia-Ukraine War has been an unmitigated disaster. Hundreds of thousands have been killed or wounded. Millions have been displaced. Environmental and economic destruction have been incalculable. Future devastation could be exponentially greater as nuclear powers creep ever closer toward open war.
https://eisenhowermedianetwork.org/russia-ukraine-war-peace/
https://original.antiwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/eisenhower1.jpg
This article is very good, but like some others, it states that Russia had other options besides invading Ukraine. What would those other options have been? Short of assassinating some American Neocons and their NATO apparatchiks, I can’t think of one. The West refused negotiations to address Russia’s security concerns after Putin pleaded for years to stop expanding NATO right up to Russia’s front door..
Here is some factual information from this time in history Myers.
Nov 29, 2016 The Map That Shows Why Russia Fears War With US
https://youtu.be/L6hIlfHWaGU
DECEMBER 25, 2015 NATO: Seeking Russia’s Destruction Since 1949
Baker told Gorbachev: “Look, if you remove your [300,000] troops [from east Germany] and allow unification of Germany in NATO, NATO will not expand one inch to the east.”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/25/nato-seeking-russias-destruction-since-1949/
I have seen this video before, and it was one of the reasons I started to dig in and understand what a menace the U.S. has been to Russia. America’s word is no good.
You have that right all across the board Myers!
NATO has been seeking Russia’s destruction since its founding in 1949. You can count on the USA to break its promises. It said it wouldn’t expand NATO but it did. It’s now expanding beyond the North Atlantic Ocean. There could eventually be a SATO (South Atlantic Treaty Organization), An NPTO (North Pacific Treaty Organization), an SPTO (South Pacific Treaty Organization) & an IOTO (Indian Ocean Treaty Organization). Or they could let them merge into one organization & call it the WTO (World Treaty Organization). The only WTO that exists now is the World Trade Organization.
It was SEATO, not SATO. L>L
SEATO is the South East Asian Treaty Organization. I said if there is a SATO, it will be the South Atlantic Treaty Organization.
The most obvious option would have been to get one of Russia’s friends within NATO — Hungary being the most likely — formally pass legislation mandating a veto on any proposed NATO membership for Ukraine. “Problem” solved.
But the point wasn’t to solve that supposed problem. The point was to manufacture an excuse for what he expected to be an easy land grab after eight years of proxy war in the Donbas hadn’t got him the outcome he wanted.
Are you ever deluded if you think Putin wanted to grab Ukraine, one of the most courrupt countries on earth. He could have annexed the Donbas region after the coup in 2014 when the people there were begging him to annex them. He refused. It would have been much easier for him to do it then instead of eight years later.
As for your option of getting Hungary to do his bidding with NATO, Putin is too classy to put another country in the crosshairs of the U.S.. The U.S. has already targeted Orban for a takedown by sending in Samantha Power and USAID to destabilize Hungary the same way Victoria Nuland destabilized Ukraine.
When some of the people there were begging him to annex them in 2014, he decided to go the minimalist proxy war route instead of jumping in with both feet.
After eight years, that clearly hadn’t worked. The violence had died down to low double-digit deaths per year and peace had mostly broken out with Ukraine largely in control after it had spent the intervening years refusing to hold the elections called for in the Minsk Accord and after he had spent the intervening time making sure that the OSCE monitors couldn’t establish the pre-conditions for such elections in any case.
After eight years he had to actually go to war, or not get what he’d been hoping for eight years would fall into his lap without war. He chose to go to war.
I agree that Russia rightfully felt threatened, but how about allying with China to stop the U.S. aggression? After all, the U.S. was pulling the same type of crap against China, and I think they would have been very amenable to an alliance with Russia to stop this. China has a lot of leverage because of all the trade with the U.S., which Russia doesn’t have. That would have been far better than invading Ukraine. Not saying I know for a fact that it would have worked, but Russia didn’t even try that I know of.
Sorry Jeff, but you must have been too busy to pay attention for many, many years as to how Putin has begged the West to stop advancing NATO right up to Russia’s front porch. You must have missed reading or listening to Putin’s speeches and interviews. I suggest you listen to some of Prof. John Mearsheimer’s videos on how the West is responsible for the Ukraine war, and also, I might recommend that you get up to speed by reading a little book titled, “How the West Brought War to Ukraine” by Benjamin Abelow. Putin did everything he could diplomatically, and the U.S. led West told him to go pound sand. Russia’s security interests and fears were not important enough to meet with him and Lavrov.
Of course I saw all that. I even watched Putin’s entire interview with Oliver Stone. You’re missing the point, which I made abundantly clear: Russia should have tried to ally with China to stop NATO expansion and other U.S. aggression near its borders. I didn’t say anything about Putin’s many warnings and requests to the U.S. and the west in general, that’s another issue.
How do you know that Putin didn’t try to ally with China? He was with Xi at the Winter Olympics prior to the SMO in Ukraine. Maybe Xi told him there was no way they could stop NATO expansion.
Well, he didn’t try that I know of. Maybe Russia and China are better at keeping secrets than the U.S. is, but I think that if Putin had tried this, we’d know about it.
Putin plays his cards close to his vest. If Xi had turned him down, do you think he would want the whole world to know?
Horsecrap. There was no threat to Russia.
Sure, just like there was no threat to the U.S. when the Soviet Union placed nuclear missiles in Cuba. Sorry Ugly American hypocrite, not buying your BS.
Oh puhleeeze. Ukraine is not and never was a threat to Russia.
It’s not Ukraine, it’s the U.S. and its tool NATO that are using Ukraine to threaten Russia. Ukraine is just caught in the middle, though it’s far from being innocent.
So far 40 bio-labs, in the Ukraine, have been destroyed. But of course, we all know they weren’t a threat to Russia. Political criminals will miss using the Ukraine to launder their money.
The weren’t making bioweapons in Ukraine. You continue to spout ignorant crap, Ron.
They were making bioweapons in Ukraine. And I noticed you didn’t comment on corrupt politicians laundering money there.
That is yet another lie, Ron. Corruption is not unique to Ukraine.
”Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe”
”While the conflict with Russia heats up in the east, life for most Ukrainians is marred by corruption so endemic that even hospitals appear to be infected. Can anyone clean the country up?”
Source the Guardian.
You were saying? NEXT….?
Ukraine is being used as a disposable pawn by the U.S. and its tool NATO. Ukraine has its own problems, being the most corrupt country in Europe and having the most Nazi influence of any country that I know of. But this war wouldn’t have happened if not for the U.S., starting with the U.S.-fomented coup in 2014 and probably going back even further.
Interesting. Got any evidence that bioweapons were being made in Ukraine?
Nuland’s testimony before Congress, in which she admitted to the existence of “biological research facilities” in Ukraine does get you a little ways down the road between claim and proof. Where’s the rest?
It only stands to reason. The U.S. isn’t going to provide you with evidence showing things it doesn’t want to admit to doing. I believe that they were making or at least experimenting with bioweapons too. The U.S. is so evil that it’s guilty until proven innocent, so as far as I’m concerned it’s up to the U.S. to show that these labs were not used for bioweapons.
You seem to be mistaking ” I waaaaaaaaant it to be true” for “reason.”
Ever hear of circumstantial evidence? Unless a whistleblower comes forward or some Wikileaks-type information comes out, we’ll never know for certain. People have been convicted of crimes based on circumstantial evidence; you don’t have to know everything to an absolute certainty.
And BTW, I don’t “want” it to be true, I just think that it’s very likely that it is.
Yes, I’ve heard of circumstantial evidence.
“There were admittedly biological research facilities there, and it’s convenient to my position to say they were biological weapons facilities” is not evidence, circumstantial or otherwise.
Circumstantial evidence that they were weapons facilities might include e.g. disease outbreaks near them, or plane manifests showing biological weapons developers landing at airports near them.
After months of denial, U.S. admits to running Ukraine biolabs
June 14, 2022 9:52 AM CDT BY STEVE SWEENEY
”Washington has been urged to come clean over its biolab program in Ukraine after the Department of Defense admitted its existence.
The Pentagon said on Thursday that it has operated 46 biolabs in Ukraine handling dangerous pathogens, after previously dismissing the charges as Russian propaganda.
China has joined calls for the United States to explain the role and capacity of the laboratories following the Pentagon’s stunning reversal after months of denial.”
Source: https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/after-months-of-denial-u-s-admits-to-running-ukraine-biolabs/
OK, so now it’s two steps down the path.
Nuland admitted to the existence of US biolabs.
The Pentagon admitted that those biolabs handled dangerous pathogens.
The third step would be evidence that the purpose of handling those dangerous pathogens was to weaponize them. Got any of that?
Common sense would tell anyone that. Do you have any common sense?
Well, yes, “common sense” would tell anyone that. Anyone who defined “common sense” as “but I WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTT that to be true.”
I’ve got the other version of common sense, the one where facts and evidence matter.
You believe what you want to believe, and I’ll believe what I want to believe.
Everyone believes what they want to believe.
The difference between you and me is that you believe what you want to believe because it’s what you want to believe, while I try hard to not form beliefs in the absence of facts and evidence.
Which is why I’m willing to believe there were biological weapons facilities in Ukraine if I see evidence for the claim, while you’re determined to believe there were biological weapons facilities in Ukraine because, for whatever reason, you desperately want there to have been biological weapons facilities in Ukraine.
Sorry but my beliefs are based on facts and common sense. One of the reasons Putin gave for invading the Ukraine was that they refused to stop experimenting at those labs.
Putin came up with all kinds of excuses for invading Ukraine. Putin saying something is no more evidence that what he’s saying is true than is Zelenskyy saying something, Biden saying something, Xi saying something, etc.
If we want to talk “common sense,” the US has Fort Detrick, Plum Island, etc. for bioweapons research. In what universe does it make to move such research 5,000 miles away, to an area likely riddled with Russian intelligence operatives and directly in the initial path of any westward Russian military movements?
”In what universe does it make to move such research 5,000 miles away,” In the universe where our crooked government want’s to hide that fact from the people.
It already does that kind of research at Fort Detrick and elsewhere in the US. To the extent that it needs to “hide” it, which isn’t much because most Americans will put up with damn near anything, it’s got all kinds of barbed wire and armed guards to handle the hiding.
What they have to hide is the money used to finance those labs.
Why would they have to “hide” that? Even the overt “defense” budget is so large that such things could easily be hidden in it under various domestic labels. Let alone the intelligence and other “dark” budget areas.
Hell, even if they openly advertised bioweapons research, 99% of Americans wouldn’t care. They’d pull up chaise lounges and wave little American flags for the heroes defending their freedom, etc.
Who says they’re not hidden under various domestic labels? After experiencing the Covid scamdemic I guarantee they would care. People are more frightened of biowarfare than nuclear warfare.
Feel free to “guarantee” anything you like.
Your “guarantee” isn’t evidence for your claims.
Close enough.
Why would they have to “hide” that? Even the overt “defense” budget is so large that such things could easily be hidden in it under various domestic labels. Let alone the intelligence and other “dark” budget areas.
Hell, even if they openly advertised bioweapons research, 99% of Americans wouldn’t care. They’d pull up chaise lounges and wave little American flags for the heroes defending their freedom, etc.
For the same reasons that the gain of function research is done in Wuhan, China. Keeps this horrible stuff far from the U.S. in case of an accident and/or leak – didn’t work for COVID-19, but opposition to this type of research in the U.S. was a main reason it wasn’t being done here – and workers in most other countries are a lot cheaper.
You are projecting your personality onto Ron and me. It is you who doesn’t want to believe that bioweapons research was being conducted in Ukraine, so you refuse to admit that it was despite the evidence. Sure, we almost certainly will never know for certain, but that’s where context, history, logic, and reason come in. I’m perfectly willing to believe things when there is good evidence to do so, and it seems that Ron is also.
I am perfectly happy to believe that US bioweapons research was being done in Ukraine — exactly as soon as I see evidence supporting such a belief. You can lie to yourself about my preferences all you like, but that won’t change the fact that there’s nothing I would put past the US government doing. I’ve seen a lot of what it’s done, and done some of that stuff for it, or had it done to me. There’s no level of evil I would put past it.
But wanting it to be true isn’t evidence. And the truth matters enough to not just make shit up because it’s what you want to be true.
That’s one possibility. A more likely one is that you’re unwilling to believe that these were bioweapons facilities unless you see absolute proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Objectively, considering that we know that the U.S. lies about this kind of thing virtually all the time and that the proof you’re demanding is almost impossible to get, your standard is unreasonable. It’s much more logical to believe that these were bioweapons labs unless we see strong evidence to the contrary. If they weren’t bioweapons labs, one would think that the U.S. would produce that evidence, but they haven’t done so.
“That’s one possibility.”
It’s not a possibility. It’s how things are.
“A more likely one is that you’re unwilling to believe that these were bioweapons facilities unless you see absolute proof beyond a reasonable doubt.”
That’s not a possibility because I’m not unwilling to believe that they were bioweapons facilities. I have no opinion on whether they were bioweapons facilities. If I see evidence that they were, I’ll tend to believe they were. I asked for evidence. So far, no takers.
You have the evidence, you just choose not to believe it. As I said, circumstantial evidence is evidence, and it’s all you’re going to get here.
So far I haven’t seen any circumstantial evidence. Just claims. If there IS evidence, circumstantial or evidence, feel free to point me at it. I’d like to see it so that I can make an informed appraisal. But “I really, really, really, really WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTTTTTTTTTT them to have been weapons facilities” isn’t evidence of any kind.
”After months of denial, U.S. admits to running Ukraine biolabs”
June 14, 2022 9:52 AM CDT BY STEVE SWEENEY
”Washington has been urged to come clean over its biolab program in Ukraine after the Department of Defense admitted its existence.
The Pentagon said on Thursday that it has operated 46 biolabs in Ukraine handling dangerous pathogens, after previously dismissing the charges as Russian propaganda.
China has joined calls for the United States to explain the role and capacity of the laboratories following the Pentagon’s stunning reversal after months of denial.”
Source: https://www.peoplesworld.or…
You were saying? NEXT…..?
Biolabs does NOT equal weapons labs, Ron. Good grief.
In this case they do.
BS
In your biased opinion. I couldn’t help but notice your still supporting the anti-American freedom hating globalist.
I can’t help but notice how absolutely clueless about virtually everything that you are.
Clueless? When it comes to being clueless, you’re the cham tommyboy. Then of course you have admirers that are just as clueless.
thanks for yet another laugh, Ron.
Poor tom now I realize you’re suffering from Pseudobulbar affect. I suggest you seek treatment for that condition.
Wow Ron, who helped you look that one up? Hate to break it to you but my laughter is quite appropriate.
WOW! Alzheimer’s Disease coupled with Pseudobulbar affect. You should see someone for that tommyboy maybe just maybe they might have some p-harmaceuticals you could take for those problems.
Ron, if you get or have Alzheimer’s how will anyone be able to tell??????
I don’t know your case wasn’t too hard to detect so…………
LOL. You are projecting big time.
LOL? Thanks for confirming what I said. Projecting? In your opinion.
Russia was not threatened by Ukraine.
You are missing the point. This is a war where NATO and the U.S. were/are threatening Russia. NATO/U.S. have been turning Ukraine into a battering ram against Russia for many years. Try watching some of the videos with Prof. John Mearsheimer. He states that Putin had no other option.
This guy is a troll here and on another site on which I blog. You’ll never get anywhere responding to his BS. He’s a typical Ugly American on this and similar issues.
BS. There was NO threat to Russia.
What would the United States do if China deployed nuclear weapons in Mexico? Or Russia were to do the same in Cuba?