Antiwar.com news editor Jason Ditz debated former assistant secretary of defense Richard Perle on the subject of US drone strikes in Pakistan. The debate was broadcast live on BBC Radio 5 Live yesterday (June 6).
42 thoughts on “BBC Debate: Jason Ditz vs. Richard Perle”
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Did Pearl act shocked about hearing the accusation of a war crime, not some casual critique, by refuting the kill ratio of 40/1 identified victims mistakingly as though it was a civilian/terrorist kill ratio? So even someone like Pearl agrees that if the kill ratio is 40/1 civilian/terrorist that would be a horrific scenario. Reprehensible if I am reading his reaction to his mistake correctly….
"Pakistan is a country [has a government] which has just sentenced to 30 years in prison a man who helped us locate Osama bin Laden, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Pakistanis [civilians] in this situation [CIA drone strikes]." -Richard Perle, BBC 6/06/12
(Great job, Jason!)
Look, Perle, I don't have a lot of sympathy for chickenhawk warmongers like you. I'm sorry you're not on the receiving end of a drone strike.
I have no sympathy for Pakistan being bombed and fragmented as since the 1970's along with Saudi Arabia has been the biggest whores of the Empire financing and training Islamic terrorist and insurgent armies and groups around the world in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya and the North Caucasus, Kashmir, Central Asian stans, Xinjing and Afghanistan working hand in glove with Mr Pearle and the other Necons.
It was a protected Chechen terrorist network operating from Europe and North America that ran through Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkey that made 9/11 possible as the various pre 9/11 intelligence warning prove that apparently no one bothered to read.
Exactly. I do feel for people, but people need to learn how to vote, and stop swimming in emotions. Last time when Ms. Bhutto and her Mr.10% husband came back to Pakistan, it was clear that they had a mission outlined outside the country. People were ready to vote for her! Her death gave her corrupt husband the sympathy vote he definitely did not deserve. Once in power, he surrounded himself with the loyal elite, and now they are stuck with them. What will it take for many nations to understand NOT to throw their vote stupidly, and not get into stupid, emotional hairsplitting — when they need to join hands and kick the corrupt leaders out in elections. I see this pattern in many other countries in crisis. On one hand, they know the devil they know. While they desparately want change, they are fearfull of it. This is the process that revolutions are made off. Not like the one in Syria, where there is NO public support, and the armed, masked gangs roam the villages outside of govenment army control — killing people just to teach them to support their "revolution". That is a horse of very different color.
Great job, Jason.
BTW, just listened to a debate between Glenn Greenwald and some other guy from AEI. Why do all these AEI guys seem to have the same pompous, professorial drone [sic]? Even professors don't actually talk that way (as an academic, I should know).
They 'all' talk that way because of the echo chamber of rationalization that they maintain, the steady stream of talking points needed to reinforce their messianic zeal for war against the whole world.
Where can I find this debate?
Extraordinary debate. Pearle reveals his rage at Pakistan for daring to resist US interference in Pakistani affairs. Two European studies showed definitively that due to non existent U.S. intelligence on the ground in Pakistan that ninety to ninety five per cent of drone strike victims are civilian.
they only attack terrorist headquarters,and concentrations of terrorist, golden.
as for the good doctor
"The four-member tribal court did not entertain evidence relating to Dr Shakil Afridi’s involvement with the CIA, citing lack of jurisdiction as the main reason and recommended that he be produced before the relevant court for further proceedings under the law, leaving the option open for his trial under treason law.
However, he was sentenced to 33 years in prison and fined Rs320,000 under various clauses of the British-era Frontier Crimes Regulation.
His long conviction prompted a strong reaction from human rights activists and his brother Jamil Afridi and a panel of lawyers said they intended to appeal and challenge the conviction in a court of law.
In a militancy infested tribal region it’s rare to see a member of an outlawed group or terrorist organisation being tried or convicted. However, Dr Afridi was sentenced to such a harsh jail term not for involvement in any act of terrorism but on the charge of having links with Mangal Bagh.
Until now officials have been vaguely saying that Afridi was convicted on charges of involvement in anti-state activities that was taken to believe that he had been sentenced for helping the CIA in its Abbottabad raid.
The five-page court document, available with Dawn, reveals that Mr Afridi was arrested for his “involvement in anti-state activities” on May 23, 2011, following reports that he was in league with Lashkar-i-Islam.
Lashkar-i-Islam — a Bara-based militant organisation in Khyber tribal region led by Mangal Bagh — was banned in June, 2008."
http://dawn.com/2012/05/30/dr-afridi-jailed-for-h…
It is painful to listen to Richard Perle lie.
Richard Pearle cannot hold candle to Jason Ditz. He does not have the knowledge — but plenty of arrogance. This is, I guess, what hurts the most. Are we indeed being governed by a petty, venal, narcissoid and venal elite? Can such elite really conceive of a world order where US is a leader — leading by example of respecting international law, and working on building up that law, so that fewer problems among nations will be contested and controversial. Leader must show more respect for international law, treaties, UN Charter — then any other country. That would be the only way to demostrate that nobody is above the law, and that our morality in respecting rules we ourselves signed up for — is superior to all others. For as long as we are breaking every law there is, and pretty much being unconcerned about the consequences and opinions of others — we are pulling the world community down into dark ages. Nobody profits from misery of others — we will not be an exception.
"Nobody profits from misery of others"
This is the quickest way to riches and power. Do you not know Richard Pearle's history. LMAO. How many of our elite do you think had private celebrations after 9/11? I guarantee you Pearle was celebrating.
Reality strikes? … How does one debate an issue that is totally based on lies and falsehoods. In this environment, cretins, such as dickey perle, win every time. So, one might ask, is the policy of using drones justifiable, yes or no? Hold on a minute; is the war on terror real or fraudulent? Is the very premise used to justify the War on Terror bogus? If so, this so called debate is merely an exercise in self-flagellation or just another platform for sleazebags like Dickey Perle to appear respectable. I admire Jason Ditz. I am grateful to anti-war.com. However, until people and websites such as anti-war.com are prepared to look at the events of the past decade and recognize that every aspect of the 9-11 story is a sham, we will continue to be serenaded by discussions involving pompous loads such as dickey perle that hide the ugly, ugly reality of America in 2012. Speaking of valuable debates, does anyone know how many angels dance on the head of a pin??
I'm with you. I remember hearing Perle, back in 1998, saying that it was time to invade Iraq, and thinking, what a moron, what a fringe lunatic. No one is ever going to buy that load of garbage.
But we did.
I can't see debating him so much as making a citizen's arrest and putting him where he belongs: at the Hague in Milosevic' old cell.
So Perle openly admits he's he is in favour of massive collective punishment of a whole nation just because their corrupt government won't 100% bend to the US government demands , I wonder how he sleeps at night knowing that he literally advocates naziesque policies ?.
People like Perle won't come out and say they hate middle eastern muslims, but it seeps through with every word they say, you can tell the guy thinks Muslim life in that region isn't worth water, this is precisely why they hate us.
It's so easy for people like Perle to make shit up, he doesn't care about the truth, so he can pull anything out of his arse, he has no shame at all.
Naziesque policies ….. close but no cigar; however, the distinction is critical.
Richard Perle and his fellow Neocon hucksters come out of the school of Leo Strauss or more importantly the lineage of Leon Trotsky. The ends justifies the means has been their motto since day one. They would never let the life of an innocent child, a helpless mother, a tottering grandmother, a pristine forest, a natural lake, or archaeological treasure get in their way of securing one more violent and odious step towards world government, in which of course they would be in charge due to their superior intelligence and all around smugness (*i.e. david horowitz).
When you think of Trotsky think of Lazar Kaganovich, think of murdering millions of Russians, think of starving millions of Ukranians, discarding millions of peasants. I am sorry to say, these sick sobs are just getting warmed up. There are at least four billion targets on their hit list.
Jason,
Was there more to the interview? Would have been nice to give you the last word.
that was the end unfortunately… we were the last segment on the show so there was no additional time.
nice how they gave Perle the first and last word. Very professional.
FICTION
Perle
“The doctor received 30 years in prison for conducting a legitimate vaccination program
FACT
The second shot was not administered by the doctor, so Jason was correct, the whole thing was bogus, fake and sham.
Also, the doctor received the 30 year sentence for helping someone commit treason or terrorism.
Short as the debate was, Perle hit us with over 30 lies, maybe 50 big ones even.
I wouldn't go into any situation where Perle was located. He is toxic, low-grade, reptilian! Any room where he's been should be fumigated, burnt if possible.
Don't insult reptiles
I agree. Reptiles eat bugs. Pearle is a mass murderer.
These neocons spin fairy tales to justify their murder of innocents in Arab countries. There is no HARD evidence that anyone killed by a drone attack was a terrorist. There's just malignant utterances by Perl and his neocon Zionist ilk in government and (corporate) media. Similarly there is no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 911 or any other terrorist attack. It's all lies to justify murder of of innocents in Arab countries and make mega billions for big oil, big banks, big weapons and all their Wall St. cronies. You want an intro to this scam read General Butler's War Is a Racket sometime http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/butler-s1.1.1.h…
there can never be another person on the face of the earth with more faith in the certainty of life after death than a muslim,
A commenter above said that the likes of Perle cant be debated as long as we dont accept that the entire 9/11 narrative is a lie. Problem is Ditz debated him and clearly destroyed him. The issue is that radio doesnt allow for second looks, or links to sources. In terms of talking points Ditz was spot on. Great work man! As for the entire 9/11 narrative, surely the main story is garbage (someone, somewhere clearly knew what was happening and let it), but that doesnt mean planes werent flown by muslims who hated america for what they do in their countries; That's blowback for policies such as the one we're looking a t in this debate.
Hey, if Richard Perle says all those drone strikes are carefully vetted then by golly, you can believe him. He was an official of the US gov’t, so he must be right. Proof???? He don’t need to show you no stinkinkin’ proof!!!
BTW, if Perle sticking up for an Obama policy doesn’t convince Americans it’s all the same ol’ oligarchy in DC, then what the hell will???
They 'all' talk that way because of the echo chamber of rationalization that they maintain, the steady stream of talking points needed to reinforce their messianic zeal for war against the whole world.
Pearl agrees that if the kill ratio is 40/1 civilian/terrorist that would be a horrific scenario. Reprehensible if I am reading his reaction to his mistake correctly….
C?n s?t giàn ph?i qu?n áo
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?ây c?ng là n?i lo chung c?a nhi?u ng??i trong cu?c s?ng hi?n ??i, ??c bi?t là nh?ng ai sinh s?ng trong các ?ô th?. Không ch? mang l?i ti?n ích, các s?n ph?m nh? gian phoi qu?n áo thông minh hay t? âm t??ng còn ?em l?i s? thông thoáng cho không gian gia ?ình b?n và ph?n nào tô ?i?m c?n nhà c?a b?n. V?i nhi?u ng??i Vi?t Nam, giàn ph?i thông minh còn khá xa l? nh?ng v?i nh?ng n??c phát tri?n nh? các n??c ? B?c M? và ?ông Âu thì s?n ph?m này ?ã tr? nên quen thu?c và ???c r?t nhi?u ng??i s? d?ng. giàn ph?i thông minh&
Nh? nghiên c?u và t?n d?ng các công ngh? hi?n ??i, giàn ph?i ?? thông minh ?ã ???c ra ??i sao cho v?a hi?n ??i, v?a ti?n l?i nh?ng v?n g?n gàng và d? s? d?ng. giàn ph?i thông minh
?u ?i?m b?c nh?t c?a giàn ph?i ?? thông minh là ti?t ki?m không gian, ?i?u mà m?i gia ?ình trong cu?c s?ng càng ngày càng ?ông ?úc, nhà c?a càng thu h?p l?i ?ang r?t c?n. gian phoi
Nói v? ?? ti?n d?ng thì không ai có th? ph? nh?n r?ng giàn ph?i thông minh là s?n ph?m c?n nh?t cho m?i gia ?ình hi?n nay. Không nh?ng ti?t ki?m ???c không gian s?ng, giàn ph?i còn giúp m?i ng??i thoát kh?i d? b?n lòng v? m?t m? qu?n áo ? ??ng không có ch? thông thoáng ?? ph?i móc. giàn ph?i ??
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Không ít ng??i ph?i s?ng trong nh?ng c?n h? ch?t nít và bé tí. M?i ho?t ??ng ?? duy trì cu?c s?ng bình th??ng c?ng c?n ph?i s?p x?p không gian sao cho h?p lý và hi?u qu?.
tinh d?u d?a
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“These next two games mean absolutely everything to this club,” Sherwood said on Thursday. “We’ve got two of the biggest football matches this club is ever going h??ng d?n ch?i cá ?? bóng ?á tr?c tuy?n to have ahead of us. The players will know after the West Brom game that the next time they play it will be the most important game they are ever going to play in for this club.”
As I wrote in Big Weekend, the issue with hyping up the importance of your next match as a motivational tool is that it makes you look bloody foolish if your players then fail to turn in a meaningful display. That is the reality that Sherwood now faces.
There was great anticipation ty le ca cuoc m88 at assessing Sherwood’s ability to manage through a medium-term strategy rather than a short-term punch to the face. So far, the signs aren’t good. It’s Liverpool, Chelsea, Swansea, Tottenham and Manchester City to come in the space of the next six league games.
One of the weird inequalities keo bong da cup c1 of Liverpool’s squad is that Brendan Rodgers has somehow spent a great deal of money on a group of players that now only includes one traditional winger. Rodgers’ decision to loan out £20m signing Lazar Markovic and keep Ibe rather than vice versa is a huge compliment to a player ty le bong da c1 almost two years Markovic’s junior.